Ideally, should English teachers at schools in Japan be native speakers? Can non-native English speakers do just as well or better?

I think you have the question phrased wrong. It should be, Could a native English teacher in Japan do just as well as a non native?

And the answer to that is, yes but only if that native English speaker is also fluent in Japanese.

The problem is not how English is taught in Japan, nor who teaches it. The problem is exposure. There is absolutely zero need to speak English in Japan.

Look at Japanese TV. Whenever they have anyone non Japanese speaking English or any other languages, instead of adding subtitles they dubb the whole thing. Happens in news and variety programs.

Want to be a travel agent, no need to be bilingual. It's crazy the most travel agents I've seen can't speak a word in English. Just crazy.

Microsoft customer support, no English available.

What ever happened to Rakuten establishing English as their official language for business within the company and requiring managers and similar positions to be fully bilingual or face not having a job or demoted?

You don't need native teachers to teach the language. In fact, I don't think they could do the job, at least not as good as non-native teachers.

What Japanese need is a reason why they should speak the language.

The benefit of a non-native speaker is that they've acquired the language as a 2nd language learner. As such, they have a better understanding of the difficulties and issues of confusion particular to 2nd language learners of English.

Depends on what you need the English for. If it is to be involved in the world conversation then authority doesn't really need that. Basically, despite the internet and travel and widespread access to different ideas and contexts, authority is happy that people remain largely oblivious, though it can make use of some mangled versions of outside ideas here and there. "I am Japanese" allows a person to excuse poor English and lack of much of what many outsiders take for granted in conversation and divert the conversation to a subject they are themselves familiar with and for which there is enough conversation material "explaining" what that means.

You don't need native teachers to teach the language. In fact, I don't think they could do the job, at least not as good as non-native teachers. 

Not as good →Not as well

Many non- native speakers are better than natives. ^_^

My teachers were British and American. Having students read boring novels that they like is how they taught but I prefer native teachers.

You can pay $50,000 tuition and they’ll have your kids read the same things in US. colleges.

Just teach yourself.

There is no 'ideal'. Each individual person has a way of learning that is unique to them. I think there is genuine benefit of having both native speakers and non-native speakers. I've always been puzzled by native speakers of English being promoted as better than non-native speakers. Non-native speakers are the majority, and they have experience of speaking more than one language, so they know methods and can imagine how the students feel.

I used to work in a small eikaiwa where one of the teachers did not have English as his native language. He got on fine, he had a good "teacher personality" and he was popular with the students, but he mainly taught the youngest students, which basically involved playing the (to use a phrase I once saw and never forgot) "ding-dong-genki" role.

His spoken English, when we spoke with him, wasn't 100 per cent perfect, but he never had any issue getting his point across.

So in his case, he could do it as well as a native speaker.

A nonsensical question.

eg Choosing between a poorly skilled native speaker and a highly skilled non-native speaker, then obviously we know who is better suited to the task.

Both teachers have important roles to play.

To further the notion - do Science teachers have to be scientists? Art teachers artists? Math teachers mathematicians? History teachers historians? It may help but is far from necessary.

The attributes of a good teacher are not defined by their subject alone.

Perfect pronunciation is highly overrated in Japan. Many European politicians, actors, directors, fashion designers, etc. speak fluent English on very complex topics with a French, German, Italian etc. accent. No-one cares.

Here's Adriano Celentano, a legendary Italian man with a very natural sounding accent singing complete gibberish. Unlike Merkel, Macron, etc. he is not using actual English.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-VsmF9m_Nt8

"ding-dong-genki" role.

For commercial reasons, English lessons in Japan must be fun. That's what the system/status quo tells parents to expect. This contrasts with swimming lessons, music lessons, dance lessons, .... which do not have to be any fun whatsoever. A piano lesson can be scales for fifty minutes.

I suspect a more serious approach to teaching kids would produce better results than getting kids to jump up and down while saying "jump jump jump!" but that's what sells.

What is needed are teachers highly trained and skilled in good pedagogy and techniques for helping students learn English.

Teachers provide value when students learn faster. This means that teachers need to be experts on how the brain learns and how to construct a classroom space where this learning process is maximized.

Along with these teaching skills, the teacher needs some level of proficiency in the subject material, in this case English. How proficient? That depends on the students. The teacher needs to consistently challenge students just above their current level, which means being proficient well above the current level of students. A highly advanced student might need a different teacher from a beginner.

There are some non-native teachers to whom I’d gladly pay money to teach English. There are also many who have no business teaching English. There are many native speakers who should absolutely not be given teaching jobs. There are some who are excellent teachers. Is a person expert in helping students learn faster? This is the relevant criteria.

For commercial reasons, English lessons in Japan must be fun. That's what the system/status quo tells parents to expect. This contrasts with swimming lessons, music lessons, dance lessons, .... which do not have to be any fun whatsoever. A piano lesson can be scales for fifty minutes.

This doesn’t entirely make sense. Piano, swimming, and dance lessons occupy the same commercial “narai-goto” sector of the economy. Do parents sign up to torture their kids in one activity, but demand fun in another? Especially since most music, dance, and sport lessons that I’ve seen also incorporate “fun,” I don’t buy it.

Kids naturally learn through play. Humans learn when we are emotionally engaged. An English lesson that is silly all the time and never builds toward learning goals is stupid. A piano lesson that drills constantly and never sparks positive emotions is also stupid. A good teacher in any subject or activity hooks students emotionally and gives them opportunities to play within the task at hand to build toward new skills.

What kind of school are you talking about?

What ever happened to Rakuten establishing English as their official language

they told me they expected all my non Japanese employees to be fluent in Japanese.

i asked why if the official language for “everyone” is English.

didn’t get the deal, of course. Or an actual answer in either language. But was totally worth the confused looks they had.

For English teaching I think either a native or non native is fine.

i think sometimes non natives appreciate and understand the struggle more.

Michael Jordan can’t really teach me how to play basketball well, he just “knows”

It would help, for sure.

That said, English lessons in Japan are mainly a joke; a bit like drama or media studies back home. A chance to doss around for a bit.

Garthgoyle wrote Today 07:40 am JST

The problem is not how English is taught in Japan, nor who teaches it. The problem is exposure. There is absolutely zero need to speak English in Japan.

But isn't that true to almost any country? I mean, few countries have a NEED for its citizens to speak a second language.

They should be native speakers with proper teacher's credentials preferably in teaching English as a second language.

Now to make my point, I was taught English in French school in Canada by non native English speakers and it was painfully bad and most Canadians I know that were taught French in school in other provinces mostly by non native French speakers never learned the most basic French.

If you really want to learn a language then a native speakers with the correct education and credentials is the only way to go.

which native spoken english, american, british, australian, irish, south african?

American.

BlacklabelToday  09:18 pm JST

American.

new england accent? or california speak where the intonation of last word of every sentence goes up like a question? or southeast accent where you need a redneck translator? haha.

The benefit of having a non-native English teacher is that they themselves have gone through the journey of learning English as a second language, and can therefore help students overcome similar and common struggles ESL and EFL students encounter. They also tend to be better versed at the nuances of English grammar because it's something that many ESL and EFL students learn to death whereas native English speakers acquire a lot of the grammar aspects through implicit learning. That being said, native English teachers have a leg-up on native vernacular - idiomatic speech, slang, accent etc.

The problem with learning English in Japan, aside from the school's outdated approaches with their inexperienced ALTs, textbooks riddled with mistakes and unrealistic, stilted language examples, and focus on reading, writing and grammar for exams, is that there is little to no opportunity for students to be exposed to and use their English in real life. It doesn't help that Japan has a very insular mentality and caters almost every aspect of daily living to Japanese. Cinema is a good example - they provide a dubbed option of English language movies so many Japanese people will choose that option instead of going to see the original with Japanese subtitles. Japan also tends to favour American English and the American accent so students get thrown off by teachers who come from Australia, South Africa, the UK, Ireland etc.

I'm Filipino and have taught in Eikaiwa in Japan. English is my second language and learned it naturally through immersion at a young age. Similar to what other commenters have said, I think the benefit of learning it as a second language gives you a perspective on how another learner of English who will use it as a secondary language, especially a user who will use it to limited extent. Of course, Eikaiwa management will stereotypically look for a typical caucasian-looking person from a native English-speaking country over somebody who can speak the language as fluent, but lives in a country that uses it only for official purposes. I can't blame Japan but, I wish fair opportunities were given to others as weill.

A good teacher is a good teacher. It doesn't matter where they come from. The problem with English teaching in Japanese schools is the curriculum and the way English is taught. There is no opportunity for students to practice. That's the biggest problem. Japanese teachers tend to waffle on in Japanese about English grammar and vocabulary so that most of the lesson is in Japanese.

Give them a grammar point or a new structure, explain it in Japanese if that is the most appropriate way so that they understand it and then practice it in English. It doesn't even have to be spoken.

Give them a pattern, for example "I'm going to the (station)." And have them make and write sentences with words from a list, (post office, convenience store, school, hospital, etc.) until they've got it and then move on to the next one. As they gain in ability, this can become more creative. "He was going to the post office because (student fills in blank)." As students progress, this can expand into full essay writing. They have to make English their own and they have to create with it. Get them using it, not just listening to it as background noise.

“ Ideally, should English teachers at schools in Japan be native speakers? Can non-native English speakers do just as well or better? “

—

No and yes—

(I don’t think I have the personality to be a teacher but—) I speak five languages (you may think this is impressive, but for a young Western European like me, this is normal), including English (fluent and with a perfect American accent), so I think I would do a better job than a native speaker who only speaks English—

;

My comment is based on the fact that English classes in Japan are a joke so you don’t need much to be considered an “English teacher” in Japan, but unlike some (stupid) people, I don’t look down on those who work or have worked as English teachers (because it’s an easier way to move to Japan).

For small children or complete beginners I don't think there is any need, but when pronunciation becomes important then yes.

Non native speakers can connect the fine points more easily such as detailed grammar for beginner and intermediate levels. Native speakers can refine the language for speaking and so on. Both are useful but I’d say at a minimum the teacher should be able to communicate or even speak the language they are supposed to be teaching. I don’t think that’s a big ask

The stereo type Question, native or non-native I only hear this in Japan, Once abroad I hear people of all shapes and colors speak English along with many other languages and NO ONE cares or even notices.

A friend of mine was once asked by a Japanese man, Where you from? replied England, he then said you don't look British!!?

LOL.

Any teacher is perfect, as long as it doesn't teach pronunciation in Katakana, and also he doesn't put the children to endlessly memorize words and grammar.

A language is learned by actual communication and interaction in that language. Learning like you learn geography, it will never work. Personally I would throw away all Japanese English text books.

They are the worst manuals ever produced.