Foreign-born Miss Japan sparks debate on what it means to be Japanese

"So, someone who doesn't have a drop of Japanese blood and has no trace of Japanese-ness is going to represent Japanese women?" 

Things like this always bring the knuckle draggers out.

Karolina Shiino may not have "Japanese blood", but she is Japanese. The outraged basement dwellers will just need to accept it, or retreat back to their basements.

All the best to this great young woman representing Japan!

Karoliina Shino looks very Japanese. Why should she not be crowned Miss Japan?

Agree with the above. This kind of thing always brings the xenophobes and racists out. Why is it that anyone can ‘be’ American (for example), but being Japanese has different parameters for so many.

She is not Japanese. She is a citizen of Japan, that is true.

Otherwise anyone can claim to be.

People like above would claim an alien from outerspace to be human if he can speak and behave like Japanese.

There is no wrong in saying so.

I like Japanese girls and I don't expect that!

Anyone who has Japanese citizenship should be considered to be exactly the same as anyone else who has it.

The Japanese were never very comfortable with international beauty contests. The nature of the competition and the individualism, particularly among young, is something that runs against their nature. The past Japanese contestants always looked awkward on stage to me. In that light, it's not surprising that "Miss Japan" has a European background.

Not only does she look Caucasian, she is Caucasian!

The 26-year-old model, who was born in Ukraine and looks Caucasian, has lived in Japan for more than 20 years and is a naturalized citizen. She moved to Japan when she was five years old after her mother remarried a Japanese man.

Agreed that she is very much a Caucasian woman in the mold of Japanese aesthetic standards. The kind that would be featured in Japanese commercials , like for an English conversation school.

Compare her to the Instagram bombshells and Western beauty contest contestants and you can see the difference.

The Japanese were never very comfortable with international beauty contests. The nature of the competition and the individualism, particularly among young, is something that runs against their nature

In Japan, Japanese are willing to go for idol instead beauty pageant to entertain middle age salaryman that have no life except idolizing and worshiping their idol.

Yep, this is certainly bringing all the Neanderthals out.

By the way, I am pro-Ukraine.

For the sake of diversity, accept that there are differences in what you call things or people. A cat is a cat. If I meow perfectly, I a still not a cat.

Miss Japan? Nothing striking about her appearance. Quite average looking to be honest. So obviously the organizers trying to get some attention for their outdated competition.

What it means to look Japanese is going to change. This is simply math.

I wonder how often she still gets patronising comments about how 'jozu' her Japanese and ability to use chopsticks is.

“Nothing striking about her appearance. Quite average looking to be honest. “ And now the misogynists.

Nothing better like those contests or events, to bring the passive-aggressive racists and xenophobes locals on the spot again.

This time via Twitter X, FB, Insta, Tik Tok, etc.

I have mixed feelings on this, though at the end of the day, I am not Japanese, so my opinion probably doesn't matter very much. Whether one is born Japanese or can become Japanese is a question this society most certainly will have to consider in the current era. I do not consider myself Japanese, that I know.

I can understand why many, especially Japanese people, would be befuddled to learn that this year's Miss Japan is an ethnically Ukrainian woman. I do not think that this decision is an attempt to push the DEI philosophy in general, though. It seems to be more a means to echo the overwhelming pro-Ukrainian virtue signaling already prevalent in Japan. That is to say, if it not were for Russia's invasion two years ago, she would not have been chosen. Hard to imagine an immigrant from any other country being selected.

Karolina Shiino may not have "Japanese blood", but she is Japanese.

Would you feel the same way if the contestant was born in the Russian Federation or Mainland China but spent the majority of their life in Japan?

I am English, born and bred, my father is English, mother Japanese, I hold a Japanese passport, I do business here in Japan. I enjoy being part and contributing to my local community

I neither want or expect to be "accepted" as "Japanese". Karolina Shiino clearly does.

I positively view my English/Japanese heritage as an advantage not something I wish be a matter of separation.

No debate.

It is a new sign that Japan is opening more and more.

Having lived here more than 20 years and having the passport, she is more Japanese than many, and especially all the sports players playing for the national team, idols of many, never receiving any complain.

Journalism based on such social media reports should be banned

I've met many a citizen of North America and Oceania who say they are Irish-Dutch-German or what ever. Same thing here. The emotional and the efficient in harmony; the emotional is the nationality you feel you are, efficient depends on the legal status... If she can tick those boxes, she's Japanese.

Jonathan Prin

Today 06:56 am JST

She is not Japanese. She is a citizen of Japan, that is true.

That makes her Japanese in the eyes of the law, which everyone who lives in a country has to accept and abide by.

Otherwise anyone can claim to be.

That's right, if they can acquire Japanese citizenship.

Would you feel the same way if the contestant was born in the Russian Federation or Mainland China but spent the majority of their life in Japan?

Absolutely.

If they - like Karolina - are Japanese, embrace and love Japan, and choose to represent their nation with pride - why not?

I'd put my house on it the same knuckle-draggers outraged over this were the same deadbeats throwing racist insults at Japan Goalkeeper Zion Suzuki days ago, falsely accusing him of being "not a real Japanese". Sad little people.

Clearly this was a political decision.

Can you imagine any other foreign-born woman winning such a competition. What about same circumstances but the person is from a certain other country - never.

The icing on the cake is she was born in Ternopil, the Galicia region of west Ukraine.

In the next 20-30 years noone will look "Japanese" anymore. The only people having any kids are the immigrants who come over here.

Can you imagine any other foreign-born woman winning such a competition

You mean like pretty much any international sports event, where "foreigners" are allowed to participate after naturalization?

Absolutely.

If they - like Karolina - are Japanese, embrace and love Japan, and choose to represent their nation with pride - why not?

I'd put my house on it the same knuckle-draggers outraged over this were the same deadbeats throwing racist insults at Japan Goalkeeper Zion Suzuki days ago, falsely accusing him of being "not a real Japanese". Sad little people.

Fair enough, man.

I wholeheartedly agree that the netto-uyoku types that angrily and blindly spread vicious hate against non-Japanese people in Japan seriously need to work on themselves if they want to have a better life rather than always blaming someone else, whether that someone else be Ukrainian, Chinese, American, African, ect.

The debate on immigration should always be open still, as long as people approach it from positions of respect and good intentions.

She maybe legally Japanese, but she looks completely European.

You mean to say not one beautiful lady of Japan, was up to this? I think not.

I can certainly understand people of Japan feeling slighted.

Non Japanese appearing as Miss Japan, and non woman, as Miss Netherlands.

No globalist agenda here, nope, none at all.

If she colored her hair to 金髪, maybe no one would notice her differences. After all, gold-top is all the rage at the mo.

It seems she also has Russian citizenship but I guess this would not go well in the current context.

https://f-w.co.jp/catalog/?modelId=11626&detailflg=1

She would never have won the title of Miss Ukraine had she stayed and lived in her native country. Next, will we have a Miss Japan from Gaza?

Anyone who has Japanese citizenship should be considered to be exactly the same as anyone else who has it.

Yes and no. Yes, she is nationally a foreign born nationalized Japanese, but racially and ethnically she is not.

So in “theory”she really isn’t Japanese. You think a black woman from Uganda would ever represent Russia or Ukraine in their Miss competition? I don’t care personally, either way, but I understand the Japanese feelings on this. It would make more sense if she were biracial, but here we are.

Sponsored by:

スリムビューティハウス

https://slim.co.jp/

Nuff said.

I wonder what would have happened, if she was born in China and the Chinese mother was married to a Japanese?

It seems she also has Russian citizenship but I guess this would not go well in the current context.

https://f-w.co.jp/catalog/?modelId=11626&detailflg=1

LOL. That Japanese modelling site indicates she SPEAKS Russian, Ukrainian and Japanese - NOT that she holds Russian Citizenship.

Grasping at straws now.....

What does it take to be Japanese?

Japanese citizenship.

The end.

But Japanese people confuse race with nationally all the time. Like when you call them Asian, they straight away reply "I'm not Asian, I'm Japanese."

Dear Karolina please stay off social media and avoid seeking validation from the haters. You are the winner!

she has no JAPANESE DNA

There isn't "Japanese" DNA. That's not a thing. Get over the prejudices in your head.

Why is it only models, celebrities, (and sportsmen) paving the way for Japanese of mixed ethnicity? Oh yeah, because that's their role in this society "Ahhh, mecha kawaiiiiii!"... Do me a favour!

Do I think a person who is not of Japanese descent should be a representative of a society that does not accept anyone Japanese who does not look Japanese? No, it's a token gesture/slap in the face and does more harm than good.

Do I think anyone of any ethnicity should represent the UK, for example? Yes, we have a multi-ethnic society and are 100% willing to look past a person's outward appearance before making a judgment on their nationality.

Anyone can say they belong to a any group but it's a two-way street: If the group says you don't belong then to hell with them, make your own group and be proud of your individuality.

bass4funk

Today 07:53 am JST

You think a black woman from Uganda would ever represent Russia or Ukraine in their Miss competition?

A more pertinent question is whether a black woman from Uganda would ever represent the USA Canada or a European country. Why not hold Japan to the same standard as your own country?

Others said she had the right to represent the country she belongs to. "If you have Japanese citizenship then you are a Japanese. Isn't that all there is to say? What more is there to prove?" another X user said.

THIS!!

Japan's myth of a homogenou monoculture must die, or Japan will die. The conservatives, as conservatives tend to, would rather burn something than allow it to change. Conservative thinking is the genesis of every problem--social, political, economic, and environmental--that plagues this planet today.

So happy for you, Shiino. You deserve the win and the opportunity to represent your country, Japan. Best wishes at the next competition!

All these western people commenting is hilarious, even within the west only in America can someone move there and change their identity to American with their kids in the next generation fully embracing it. In Europe sure people move there but they say my family is from (ethnic origin) and now we live here.

Japan is not like that and is still a race. I don't have a problem with this woman winning this award but I am not Japanese. If Japanese people have a problem with it, I think tis wrong but it's their right. If western people have a problem with it, focus on the problems in your own country before judging another countries.

This is a classic example of a non-news story made to generate comments. First off, who cares what a bunch of people on social media say. There are no public figures commenting on it….just a bunch of people who are entitled to their opinion. Furthermore, there are a lot of comments in favor of this Why is this news? Secondly, why is the reaction this surprising? Japan is one of the most homogenous countries in the world. Change takes time. I would bet the house that most countries with such a contest would never choose a person, (whether they were a citizen of not) who didn’t look like the general population, yet they did it in Japan. Thirdly, who cares? It’s a Miss Whatever contest.

Simply two words : Congratulations Karolina!

What are Japanese people supposed to look like?

Bruce Pennyworth

Today 08:24 am JST

Japan is not like that and is still a race. I don't have a problem with this woman winning this award but I am not Japanese. If Japanese people have a problem with it, I think tis wrong but it's their right.

Presumably the organisers are Japanese and they clearly didn't have a problem with her entering. Presumably the judges were Japanese too, and they didn't have a problem with making her the winner. I don't think it's most Japanese people who have a problem.

We think this type of thinking only applies in Japan!

My son while studying in highschool in Canada was given the part of a Japanese in a play (he was the only actual "Japanese" in the school) but other "Asian " parents complained he was not "actually Asian" as he is half Caucasian!

They eventually replaced him with a more Asian looking ethnic Chinese Canadian. He decided to return to Japan where this has never happened not before not since as he is now a professional actor in Japan!

My only question is how much her being "Ukrainian" was a factor and if it was a political move and if so was this fair to the other contestants?

Let's suppose, for the purpose of logical discussion, if the same situation occurred where a similarly purely Caucasian person had competed in a different country, such as Ethiopia, Sudan, Iran or India, etc, would there be cries of foul within those countries as well?

Different day, same old racist rubbish. They'd be applauding her if she was a winner of the olympics or boosted the economy. I wouldn't validate any opinion from anyone who is still on Twitter.

Interesting how it's mostly the pro-Russian posters that seem to have an issue with this non-issue.

I wonder why?

These days it's not just about looks. The competition also gives significant weight to personality as well, which may have just won it for her. She was probably the more rounded of the contestants (a few unintentional puns included).

The way around it would be to create a new looks only based beauty contest open to biological females born in Japan of East-Asian decent. But then the ladies from up in Akita would clean it up every year.

I have 2 daughters.

The older one looks like her mum, very Japanese. The younger one looks like me, white British (she drew the short straw).

They are both Japanese.

In Japan, Japanese are willing to go for idol instead beauty pageant to entertain middle age salaryman that have no life except idolizing and worshiping their idol.

That's true of salarymen. No life except for their 9am-12am work.

I figure as long as she has the qualifications for Miss Japan, no worries. Being judgemental based on her looks and not born and raised in Japan is opinionated. If there's any gripes about her, then change the rules, otherwise, leave her alone. Congratulations to her.

Global phenomenon, merging of cultures due to digitalization especially. Everyone has same information, corporations rely on shared behaviors, standards and values.

There is no new country as a result, strictly legacy and historical in nature, that loses it practical relevance day by day, year by year. It's obvious to all.

Countries that hang on to the past, captured by their culture, will not be successful, too risky and inefficient from a global standpoint. World is BUSY connecting, NOT disconnecting thru country culture brain washing.

Can anyone imagine CEO of country culture-based institution, whether private or public, that's effective and highly successful? If so, please let us JT readers know!

Good for her.

I remember the same story about the black miss japan. Hopefully it’s. Sign japan is changing.

if you Japanese your JAPANESE. That’s it! Full stop!

gratitude that I have really been accepted as a Japanese person today.

LOL

This competition is, in big part, about appearance. Miss Japan should leads to Japanese styles.

It is why there is a discussion now, what is the Japanese looks?

Context is everything. Business and politics, my friends…; but(!) I’d say that this is a step in the right direction…; whatever it takes to prevent millions of Japanese people from drowning in their vast sea of ignorance.

Knuckle-draggers: "She ain't Japanese!"

Also Knuckle-draggers: "Go Go Michael Leitch. Japan No1. Brave Blossoms.... etc ad nauseum."

> And now the misogynists.

I find it very telling that someone's opinion (and it is only an opinion) on her beauty, or lack thereof, is called "misogyny", but no mention of the outdated contest being misogynistic in the first place.

If Karolina Shiino can play football on the Japanese national team, why can't she represent Japan in a beauty contest?

This is the kind of article that makes readers stop and think, and that can't be a bad thing. It occurred to me that the organizers of the contest might have considered the negative consequences of being exposed in the media for telling Karolina, "You can't be a contestant because you're not really Japanese (or Japanese enough)." So they allowed her to enter, and deserve credit for that, although perhaps they didn't anticipate such an outcome.

If you think some Japanese have a problem with her think about this scenario!

She decides to become some sort of designer for example clothing, and her "style" incorporates traditional "Japanese" elements culture, patterns, etc...

Now she decides to sell her "designs" in the West especially north america.

What do you think the reaction will be?

Well judging by past similar situations her not being ethnic Japanese the term " cultural appropriation" will be used!

It won't be in Japan where the problem will be it will be in the West!

We have seen this on a regular basis in the past few decades not "black" enough, not "native" enough, not "Asian" enough etc....

So the real test will not be if the Japanese accept her it will be if the western activists do!

But it's ok for Lars Nootbar who is American to play for Japan in the WBC? Some people are too hung up on "japaneseness" which is borderline racist. What does it mean to look American? What does it mean to look Singaporean, or British? Multi-cultural societies evolve, not devolve.

A foreign born citizen can't be president even in America,

Miss Japan should in theory be limited to people born in that country

Either way it's s stupid competition

Congratulations to her.

Go to Asakusa, look around and see all the foreigners walking around wearing kimonos from kimono rental stores there. White, Black Asian, etc...and the Japanese have no problem with it!

But do the same in the West especially north america and watch the fireworks of cultural appropriation begin.

We know this because of the Boston museum incident where "Asian" Americans shut down a kimono wearing and photo event organized by the Japanese government and the kimono makers association of Japan, because white people were dressing up in a kimono and getting their picture taken!

This will not be as big a deal in Japan as it will be for certain groups in North America.

If in the miss universe contest she is wearing "traditional" Japanese clothing, you can bet that complaints in western social media will be loud and considerable!

. That is to say, if it not were for Russia's invasion two years ago, she would not have been chosen.

Well said. Pure politics.

She is not Japanese. She is a citizen of Japan, that is true.

That makes her Japanese in the eyes of the law,

By Law, not by race.  Japan is the Japanese state. The same way Israel is the Jewish state.

So, question to the purists here. My two adult sons, who are half blooded(?), Japanese/American, the eldest born in Japan and the younger born in the US, both living, working, raising their own combined 6 kids, both owning their homes and paying taxes here in Japan since they were old enough to do so, are also NOT Japanese? Both had dual citizenship until they were 21, when both decided to forego their US citizenship. And since their kids are also not 100% pure blood Japanese, all born in Japan, are also NOT Japanese?

She's not Japanese, but she is a citizen of Japan. Big difference.

She's not Japanese, but she is a citizen of Japan. Big difference.

This is the same racist bs people used to say to my half-Japanese children on the train.

It’s still bs. Way to further Japan’s globalization, David.

Ken Holcomb

Today 09:34 am JST

In my experience my mixed children have had only a few problems being mixed in Japan (certain companies hiring policies being one) but it is in North America where their real problems were.

" Not really Asian" "Not really Japanese" etc...have been a common "accusation".

I have found more "purest" in North America than in Japan.

This has been even more evident with my son who is an actor and his "half" status was a major hindrance in North America, doesn't look "white" enough and not "Asian" enough to play an Asian.

Which is funny because in Japan he plays mostly "Japanese" characters and only the occasional mixed of foreign characters!

She speaks Japanese fluently. She is a Japanese citizen. She is Japanese.

A foreign born citizen can't be president even in America,

Miss Japan should in theory be limited to people born in that country

This is not about America.

Clearly Japan is more accepting.

She's not Japanese, but she is a citizen of Japan. Big difference.

In your "wisdom", what makes her "not Japanese"? And don't mention ethnicity, since there are plenty of "other" ethnicities that are Japanese and hold Japanese passports - descendents of Koreans, Chinese etc.

I am a western individual and Japan was my home for 30 years and this woman should never have been allowed to enter the contest. It should be for individuals who were born in Japan and who have Japanese nationality, full stop.

There are so many Japanese women and mixed raced Japanese women who have a tough time growing up in Japan and they should be the women who represent Japan on the World Stage and represent the women of Japan.

I need to be more clear women of Japanese nationality from birth and not individuals who came to Japan and changed their nationality for whatever reason.

Sends the wrong message and clearly a sympathy vote due to her background.

With that being said, when is the last time you saw a fully White woman or one with mixed Black heritage be chosen to represent China or South Korea? That seems to counter the tired old stereotypes of 'racist' and 'xenophobic' Japanese.

She is not Japanese. She is a citizen of Japan, that is true.

Then it is also true that she is Japanese.

She is indeed a Japanese citizen.

“I feel Japanese and have Japanese spirit” never helped me be treated as such when trying to buy a house or rent a car or get any type of account.

but hey good for her! Maybe things are getting better for gaijins. Quite sure the Ukraine connection helped.

Pretty girl! Good for her!

The problem is that "Japanese" has both genetic and legal meanings (among others). This is compounded by the fact that some people believe in the existence of a "pure" Japanese ethnicity, or "race." (There are no "pure" ethnicities, or "races.") Keeping in mind the fact that we only have to go back about 30-35 centuries to find a common ancestor for every human being alive today might help put things in perspective.

If this woman is a Japanese citizen, then nothing else matters. She was chosen to represent her country, as a citizen. This pageant is not about ethnicity, it is about nation.

Anyone objecting is showing that no matter how long you live in Japan, how much you love Japan, and even if your willing to die for Japan, that many ethnic Japanese will never consider you Japanese. This is not a race based pageant.

Will she uphold Japanese standards and represent her nation well and proudly. If the answer is yes, then Japan has indeed chosen well. Japan will in future rely upon a certain amount of immigration thanks to declining birth rates. How those who come to Japan are treated will make a big difference. Welcome them and treat them as you treat any Japanese citizen, and reap the benefits. If you treat them as less you are only inviting strife down the road. All people are equal and must be treated that way, and with dignity. Treat them how you would like them to treat you.

How many times do we have to answer this simple fact...

"Japanese" is a nationality, not a race.

Therefore, anyone who qualifies as a Japanese citizen / Japanese passport holder is Japanese.

It makes no difference where they were born or their skin color.

Accept it, it's a fact.

This is the same racist bs people used to say to my half-Japanese children on the train. It’s still bs. Way to further Japan’s globalization, David.

@John. I wonder if David is just the messenger here…? I have had Japanese citizenship for over 17 years and still I am consistently told, by other Japanese, that while I have Japanese citizenship am not a true Japanese. I’m not passing judgment as both sides have legitimate arguments and it doesn’t bother me as I do not let others define me but accusing David of hindering Japan’s globalization is bit over the top. Japan is very open to globalization…when globalization suits Japan.

Why not just do a survey of readers. If you think she does not really represent Japan, give a downvote.

As a matter of fact, she does not look like a Japanese person. If we ignore the race issue, emotions aside and focusing on the purpose of selecting the most beautiful women in Japan, hmmm? She doesn’t really make it, perhaps the beauty in my view is different.

However, there is no doubt she must have exposed to serious racial mistreatment in many occasions. Japan has a strong racism issue, even in the legal system and government rules. It’s different than having some racist people as in every country. Some examples are not being allowed to open bank account, can never get normal credit card, can be rejected purely on the race basis, can’t rent a normal accomodation, etc which are considered as basic human rights in other countries.

I would gladly take Japanese citizenship if I could keep my US passport. Japan is shooting itself in the foot over and over.

Since we are all the same human species, only passports divide us, and Karolina has the only one that counts for the contest. End of.

"has no trace of Japanese-ness"

The idea of a child who went to Japanese schools for twelve plus years and even has a Japanese step-father having "no trace of Japanese-ness" is completely ridiculous. There is no need to take the most extreme thing written on Line or Twitter and suggest it is a mass opinion.

 I would gladly take Japanese citizenship if I could keep my US passport. Japan is shooting itself in the foot over and over.

@Redemption. Actually there is a method to keep both!

I am a naturalised Japanese and lived most of my life in Japan. But the other day a bank employee asked me if I was Japanese despite telling her I am Japanese with a Japanese passport. So, yeah, there is a long way to go for this to sink in. Your contribution is welcome but you don't really belong.

But it's ok for Lars Nootbar who is American to play for Japan in the WBC?

I would love to see international competitions in general become as open and inclusive as the North American baseball world is. You can be born in Country A but have citizenship in B, or both A and B, and represent either one. You can play for a country where your parents or grandparents were born. In the official records and team-issued media guides, players' birthplaces are recorded but nobody cares what nation your citizenship is.

Competitions that use passports as dividing lines are positively backwards compared to the openness of baseball. Rugby is even more open, using residence as the standard. The way I see it, Ms. Shiino was raised in Japan and can represent Japan, but was born to Ukrainian parents and can identify as Ukrainian too.

Should have written 'never been asked to show my card.'

Bass,

Yes, she is nationally a foreign born nationalized Japanese, but racially and ethnically she is not.

It’s true her ancestors were not so ethnic origin is not Japanese, just as you are not ethnically American. However, “Japanese” is not a race, it’s only an ethnicity, primarily Yamato. In that regard I think you would have to agree that she is as much “Japanese” as you are “American”.

It changing slowly, but at least Japan is changing.

Actually there is a method to keep both!

I only know that if you were born with two or more citizenships then the government condones it because you did not take any affirmative action. As a US citizen I looked into naturalization when I was having a good day once a long time ago in a land far away and you need to affirm that you have or will renounce your US citizenship. I am not aware of any way around this.

Forget the foreign aspect for a moment.

Are you telling me she was the best of the field?

I'd like to see who the other contests were, because, cmon.......

Nationality aside, she looks anorexic and those lips like they've been pumped up with filler.

NewgirlintownToday  06:55 am JST

Agree with the above. This kind of thing always brings the xenophobes and racists out. Why is it that anyone can ‘be’ American (for example), but being Japanese has different parameters for so many.

Because the US is an entire country of immigrants. So being "American" is primarily based on legal citizenship despite the many racial and ethnic groups the population encompasses.

Japan is is extremely isolated island country, where being "Japanese" is a mix of legal citizenship, racial background and beliefs, with a long history of recognizing themselves as 日本人and all others as outsiders/foreigners.

J-bashers constantly harp on this, but in reality, Japan has made huge strides to slowly accept diversity over the last couple of decades. Especially among the younger people.

Others said she had the right to represent the country she belongs to. "If you have Japanese citizenship then you are a Japanese. Isn't that all there is to say? What more is there to prove?" another X user said.

I agree she had every right to participate. But I wonder why they chose an average-looking Caucasian to represent Japan at a beauty competition. I suspect it might be related to Japan's recent obsession with supporting everything Ukrainian.

For those claiming this is a citizenship thing only I pose the question.

If a white man or woman holding Japanese citizenship in North America tried applying for a job, an acting position calling for a "Japanese" person would they get the job and if they did would there be zero backlash if they did!

Reality is that even in the West she would not be recognized as "Japanese" based on genetics and ethnicity!

She would not be permitted to take acting jobs designated as Japanese, if she did clothing design and used traditional Japanese patterns or designs she would be accused of cultural appropriation in the West!

This is reality, we all know this is true and down voting this or pretending it isn't true won't change that.

factcheckerToday  07:14 am JST

I wonder how often she still gets patronising comments about how 'jozu' her Japanese and ability to use chopsticks is.

Once she speaks, probably never. If she has grown up in Japan since the age of 6 for 20 years, she is very likely totally Japanese in all her mannerisms.

Japanese who ask those questions usually do so towards a person who not only looks foreign but is starry eyed at common Japanese cultural aspects that everyone else takes for granted. Or opemly announces that they are a visitor.

@Antiquesaving No, I have never been stopped, even once in 22 years. But I am a 152cm female, Caucasian. Maybe that is why! That is why I was asking if race was why he had been stopped.

There are times when it's just easier to pretend to be a tourist.

OssanAmerica

Today 12:02 pm JST

factcheckerToday 07:14 am JST

> I wonder how often she still gets patronising comments about how 'jozu' her Japanese and ability to use chopsticks is.

> Once she speaks, probably never. If she has grown up in Japan since the age of 6 for 20 years, she is very likely totally Japanese in all her mannerisms.

> Japanese who ask those questions usually do so towards a person who not only looks foreign but is starry eyed at common Japanese cultural aspects that everyone else takes for granted. Or opemly announces that they are a visitor

Really? Sorry but well over 30 years in Japan, still get the above.

My 2 mixed children born and raised in Japan including one with a master's degree from Japanese university also get those types of remarks.

They also regularly get asked for their Alien registration card they don't have because they are Japanese and have even been told by police they "should carry their passport " to prove they are Japanese!

carpslidy

A foreign born citizen can't be president even in America,

Incorrect. Someone born in a foreign country to US citizen parents is considered a natural-born US citizen, and thus eligible for the presidency.

KoolKoi 

That makes her Japanese in the eyes of the law,

By Law, not by race. Japan is the Japanese state. The same way Israel is the Jewish state.

Yet, being Jewish is not a prerequisite for winning Miss Israel. It's a moot point, anyway, as Israel no longer holds such contests, due to their archaic and somewhat misogynistic nature. Beauty contests really are a remnant of the past that needs to be put out to pasture.

Is it a PR stunt? Probably. But it's a good thing because it helps change people's views on what it means to be "Japanese". The contest is basically a joke if the only purpose is to put on display the "best looking" woman in a country, so at least Japan is using it for something better than that.

John

Japan has a strong racism issue, even in the legal system and government rules. It’s different than having some racist people as in every country. Some examples are not being allowed to open bank account, can never get normal credit card, 

Incorrect. I have two credit cards that I applied for and received independently, in addition to the 3 or 4 family cards I have with my JP wife. I also have two bank accounts at major banks, in my name. It's even easier for foreigners to open accounts at online banks, such as Sony Bank, Seven Bank, etc.

But, yes, there is systemic racism built into many parts of society here. That much is true.

She is a Japanese citizen but never a JAPANESE...

This is just a pathetic complacency with the Ukraine conflict thing..

Michael Leitch was accepted as the captain of Japanese National Rugby team. Why the uproar in this case?

Kinda wonder what defines a "Japanese" is (or any nationality for that matter.) Physical genetics? Good luck with that and how far back you want to go to put a cut off date of when it became a country? Jomon age? Plenty of Japanese with Chinese and Korean dna going back milleniums.

Citizenship (naturalized or nativeborn)?

Native language and culture proficiency?

At the end of the day, it's just a superficial looks contest. No intelligence or other skills needed to win. Chill, people.

But Shiino hopes people will see past her looks.

Said the beauty pageant contestant.

Congratulations Karolina! She is a citizen of Japan for 20+ years, get over it, if there was some rules against it they would not have let her enter...end of. I am a little white young European woman, and I do not give a fig where some one comes from or where they were born, we are all people and equal (well, mostly). I adore Japanese and S. Korean women, they just sooooooo gorgeous, and yes, I am jealous of them. But I do not like those who dye their hair blonde or red, yes, they are still gorgeous, but the hair colour does not suit them. I honestly do not know if you can class that as racist, but I hope not. In my 24yrs I have never held any racist thoughts or said any thing racist, I suppose I should be proud of that but I am not, it is normal for me, as it should be for every one.

I love all the foreigners (and I am a female foreigner) who are all gung-ho defending this woman because she changed her nationality to Japanese and so she is fine representing Japan. I stand by my statement this should only be open to people who were born and raised in Japan mixed race and or otherwise, because this is about representing a country of birth. One year, there was a mixed-race woman in Japan who won, and I was incredibly happy for her because it showed another side of today's Japanese woman and I mean true Japanese woman in this case mixed race. An example, if I get American citizenship, I should be able to be able to run for the President of the United States. Yes, is this right? But no, I cannot run for the President of the United States, just because I have an American passport, because only Americans who were born in the United States can run and it should be the same in this case.

Michael Leitch was accepted as the captain of Japanese National Rugby team. Why the uproar in this case?

Fair point.

She is beautiful. woman. Honestly the photos here does not do her justice.

She has Japanese blood and Ukrainian blood running through her.

I can relate how she might think and feel on personal level.

If she wants to represent Japan. So be it. Its her choice. And she earned the right.

I lived over half my life in Japan. My kids. They look half. But I can assure you.

They are Japanese to the core. And show no interest in America or Western culture at all. Or learning English. I gave up trying to teach them long ago.

They are interested in Calligraphy/ Uni-cycle dance and Kendo. That's it.

Geneticist Hiroyuki Sasaki:

The Japanese people (日本人 Nihonjin?) are an ethnic group native to Japan. Japanese is not a race. There are no unique genetic markers to make Japanese a separate race from other Asians. The term ethnic Japanese is used in some contexts to refer to a locus of ethnic groups including the Yamato (the dominant ethnic group, comprising over 120 million), Ainu, Ryukyuan people of Okinawa, and the Kumaso/Hayato of Kyushu.

She is Japanese.

Michael Leitch was accepted as the captain of Japanese National Rugby team. Why the uproar in this case?

And he's not Japanese either. He's a Japanese passport holder though. What's your point?

Christopher Mas Osan

She has Japanese blood and Ukrainian blood running through her.

No, she doesn't. That said, she's more "Japanese" in my book than many other people who are touted as being Japanese, like say, Naomi Osaka...

She lives in Japan and is a naturalized citizen. Don't know why you would need any other qualities to call yourself Japanese.

@David Brent

Listen, Japanese is a nationality. Not a race. Asian is a race.

I as a Brit could become Japanese quite easily, but I would never be considered Asian.

May I suggest a trip back to Wernham Hogg in Slough?

Not that I care too much. But was a bit of a shock to see her picture & Miss Japan. But reading through the comments made me remember an African guy I met a while back. Asked him where he was from and he said Uganda but "Im Japanese", Still makes me smile to remember how serious he was. Not saying anything bad, but a 190cm 100kg African dude saying he's Japanese just makes me chuckle. He's a good guy but I still joke with him about it.

And he's not Japanese either. He's a Japanese passport holder though. What's your point?

Let's see, how does one qualify for a Japanese passport?

I'm curious if Japaneseness only applies to Yamato Japanese, or if Ryukyuan or Ainu would also be Japanese?

It's also worth pointing out there are only 2 requirements to entering the miss Japan pageant:

1) Must be with a single woman with Japanese CITIZENSHIP

2) Must be over 18.

https://www.missjapan.org/-2023-miss-japan

1) Must be with a single woman with Japanese CITIZENSHIP

Wild eh how in this day and age how one needs to be single to enter the thing.

Not surprised the Ms. Japan organization has selected a Ukranian Japanese citizen as the winner. Good for her for winning. Unfortunately, many will point to the obvious political propaganda tactics being used, or the alternative, to arouse debate on what it means to be Japanese. Nothing personal on Karolina though.

Wild eh how in this day and age how one needs to be single to enter the thing.

Their contest, their rules. It does actually say that your marriage history doesn't matter, you just have to be single when you apply.

"Vasudhaiva Kotumbakam" or the World Is One Family - offers much food for thought.

Oh to just be human without passports and borders.

There is no such thing as "Japanese blood". Just O, B, AB, A.

Imagine there's no country

It's easy if you try

Imagine all the people

Sharing all the world.!.

i guess the cognitive dissonance shows up in people because she doesn’t to fit the psychological stereotype of what looks “Japanese”. Something many countries that accepted immigration, especially post war. It’s probably only as the older generation, pass away and the younger generation come more and more in contact with people with a different sounding name, different colored eyes, different beliefs or even different skin color, that the stupid debate will be settled. If your Japanese, your Japanese. If you can play rugby, football, athletics and represent japan. So can she. Good luck to her, she represents my daughter and my son who don’t fit that stereotype some love. I guess we wouldn’t even have this discussion if it was in the US, UK, Australia etc, but it’s a start of something that can’t be stopped.

Not sure why it was deleted but there is no difference between a foreign born Miss Japan and foreign born members of Japan National sports teams. Why are people up in arms about this? Ridiculous!

Compare her to the Instagram bombshells and Western beauty contest contestants and you can see the difference.

I watch her Youtube videos and she is beautiful. This picture does not do her justice.

Anyways, if Brazilians can keep trotting out blond, Germanic-looking contestants instead of people with native ancestries why can't Japan?

IT "has triggered a social media debate on what it means to be, and look, Japanese." Is she a Japanese citizen? Then she win beauty contest.

Nationalism can be ugly. I doubt there would have been the same hysteria if it had been a Miss Nagoya or Miss Honshu contest.

But I do not like those who dye their hair blonde or red, yes, they are still gorgeous, but the hair colour does not suit them. I honestly do not know if you can class that as racist, but I hope not.

The irony is that blond hair is an Asian mutation. It originated in an area west of Lake Baikal and was brought to northern Europe by Asian immigrants like the ANEs. Native Western Europeans were dark skin, dark haired and blue eyed peoples and only became lighter and blonder when they interbred with these immigrants along with Anatolian farmers.

Anyways, I just want to say that I am glad Japanese identity is shifting from a racial to a national identity. If your soul is Japanese, it should not matter how you look.

I notice something a lot with Asian Americans in that they tend to think that looking East Asian means you should be automatically Japanese. But in Japan they treat people more akin to a nationality so you get Caucasians and Indians who are considered more Japanese than East Asians

Note:

My post goes hand in hand with some of the most upvoted comments in this thread but somehow it’s being heavily downvoted.

”Oh, the mystery, the mystery.”

A more pertinent question is whether a black woman from Uganda would ever represent the USA Canada or a European country.

The US and Canada have always been a racially diverse nation from the start, Europe to an extent, but 98% of the Japanese that live here are ethnically Japanese, I don't have a problem either way personally, but it begs the question, should she? Again, if she had SOME Japanese ethnic blood, go for it, but she doesn't so I can see where the frustration on the Japanese side would come from.

Why not hold Japan to the same standard as your own country?

Because Japan is NOT America and vice versa, different cultures, histories, and racial backgrounds.

Not that I care too much. But was a bit of a shock to see her picture & Miss Japan. But reading through the comments made me remember an African guy I met a while back. Asked him where he was from and he said Uganda but "Im Japanese", Still makes me smile to remember how serious he was. Not saying anything bad, but a 190cm 100kg African dude saying he's Japanese just makes me chuckle. He's a good guy but I still joke with him about it.

I agree.

She has Japanese blood and Ukrainian blood running through her.

No, she does not.

Here in The States we have beauty contest winners of different racial backgrounds, without most people questioning whether or not they are "real" Americans.

Who cares where this young lady was born?

Imagine there's no country

We need to evolve more as human and have better education. It will take 100s of years.

Well, that opened a can of worms didn’t it?!

After reading through so many replies to this article, I think JapanToday readers have arrived at the overarching question that contextualizes this story: what does it mean to be "Japanese"? Does attaining citizenship make you Japanese? Does being born in Japan make you Japanese? Does being born ethnically Japanese make you Japanese, even if you weren't born in and brought up in the country itself? Do these ideas on what it means to be Japanese overlap in some areas, making the true answer to the question more complicated and nuanced than one can summarize in a single sentence?

There may not be an answer, and I certainly am in no position to provide one in any event. But it certainly is something this society will need to address in the near future.

Citizenship and ethnicity are not always the same.

making the true answer to the question more complicated and nuanced than one can summarize in a single sentence?

Not really. All things considered, it's up to person in the end.

People just like talking about it because it gives them a sense of superiority via righteousness.

The lie that was told during the Meiji restoration to unite Japanese people because we are all one race was a lie that is still very much believed in Japan.

You are talking about 日本人論. Which is whole different kettle of fish.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nihonjinron

Japanese is not a race, if you have Japanese citizenship you are Japanese. I'm sure you wouldn't have said anything if she was Asian with Chinese or Korean parents. I can agree that her looks don't represent the current Japan, but that has nothing to do with being Japanese or not. Imagining you saying this about different races in the US or Europe, not sure why people think Asian countries should be held to some other standard.

By reading the comments of the local Japanese, cowering under different nicknames, one thing is perfectly clear:

Racism and xenofobia is alive and well in Japan.

Japanese is not a race,

That depends on your definition, many Japanese historians will argue this point.

if you have Japanese citizenship you are Japanese.

On paper that is true. But when you walk up to people and they take a look at you, that is not how they’re going to see you.

I'm sure you wouldn't have said anything if she was Asian with Chinese or Korean parents.

I disagree. Many Japanese would have an issue with that..

I can agree that her looks don't represent the current Japan, but that has nothing to do with being Japanese or not. Imagining you saying this about different races in the US or Europe, not sure why people think Asian countries should be held to some other standard

I completely understand what you’re saying, but you’re looking at from a western point of you, and you can’t do that, we are not in the west, and the west is not always the right way, thinking that way does appear in the minds of many Japanese and other Asians think that we as Westerners are superior, and that our opinions are the only things that matter, and they don’t. You have to look at it from their point of view.

bass4funk

Japanese is not a race,

> That depends on your definition, many Japanese historians will argue this point.

There are only four races, Japanese is not a separate race. They are Asian.

There’s only one human race.

To be or not to be ?

It’s really not that important

That depends on your definition, many Japanese historians will argue this point.

Well then every country would need it's own race, just stop it.

Right, we're all a product of evolution, origins of life that started out so simple so many millions and millions of years ago in terms of simple cellular biology and then became steadily more complex, until our much closer relative the monkeys from Africa etc.

She's so attractive, clearly evolution continues thankfully!

Someone who is being raised in the culture since that young almost not selfaware is undoubtedly is a Japanese. And that applies to any foreigner in any country. Thats how it is. She thinks Japanese in her head every single day. She eats Japanese food and interacts with Japanese people, she falls in love with Japanese people and properly works for the country like a decent Japanese.

even though chosing her was more of a political decision in my mind, however she is just as worthy as any other contestant with Japanese dna.

Easily MOST Beautiful Japanese lady I've EVER Seen!

But it's only superficial, let's not also forget about content of one's character = inner beauty!

I'm guessing that the contest considers contestants' point of view on various topics, their mindset, and other characteristics that could be identified as worth of "being Japanese."

Because this girl surely didn't win on her looks alone! And I don't mean "looks / doesn't look Japanese" - I mean she's a solid 5, maybe a 6.

(Let me explain my previous posts)—a) she was born in Ukraine / her parents are from Ukraine and b) there are more beautiful women out there—I see them everyday (harsh, I know, but this is a beauty contest, isn’t it); BUT (I’m gonna say it again—) this is a step in the right direction…; she’s one hundred percent Japanese – end of story.

And he's not Japanese either. He's a Japanese passport holder though. What's your point?

@David Brent

My point was why is Japan okay with Michael Leitch being the captain of the Japanese National Rugby team but not okay with this Miss Japan result. Seems inconsistent.

It's interesting to read all the opinions about what is Japanese or not. It's not a hard science. We can all have our opinions on it.

I consider Karolina to be all Japanese. Anyone who grew up here is Japanese in my opinion, even if they don't have a Japanese passport.

I'm half Japanese and half American (with both passports). I grew up in America and I'm all American. I always identify as an American although I have a Japanese face and can easily pass as Japanese.

Karolina and Rui Hachimura is Japanese. Naomi Osaka is American.

CONGRATS, I pray to GOD that here and her Mom are strong enough handle the pressure, this is not going to be easy on a 26 years old lady, Japan is UNFORGING and and i hope her success will change that.

There are many talented foreigners that strongly identify themselves with Japanese culture, as Nataliya Gudziy

and others. As Japan has only 2.4% of foreigners, around 3 million, so, there is a strong resistance to accept them as part of the Japanese society. Congratulations for the organizers of Miss Japan, they are pioneers in bringing the full acceptance of Japanese of different DNA inheritance! The government fully charges and collects the taxes of all, without any discrimination!

Mark

Today 08:07 pm JST

Correction

> CONGRATS, I pray to GOD that here and her Mom are strong enough handle the pressure, this is not going to be easy on a 26 years old lady, Japan is UNFORGIVING and I hope her success will change some of that.

I will again point out that Japan will not be her biggest problem!

What do you think will be the reaction if she shows up at events in North America wearing traditional Japanese clothing (AKA kimono etc...) claiming to be "Japanese"?

We already have a clear indication just looking at the Boston museum incident!

In that event organized by the Japanese government the Japanese kimono makers association.

Protest by Asian Americans shut the event down calling the fact that "white" people were wearing a kimono and having their photo taken as being "cultural appropriation".

This was a single kimono and it was to promote Japanese culture and with the backing of the Japanese government and it was still too much for the narrow-minded western concept of ethnicity!

She could show up to 100 events in Japan and few if any will care and but I doubt the same will happen in North America!

Japan has entirely non-Japanese athletes like Michael Leitch (rugby) and Josh Hawkinson (basketball) representing Japan in international sporting events.

But we don't seem to see anyone objecting to it on social media.

So I don't get why they have a problem with Karolina Shiino being Miss Japan.

She's a lot more Japanese, at least in lifestyle and in spirit, than major-leaguer Lars Nootbar -- who has a Japanese mother but grew up entirely in the U.S., doesn't speak Japanese, and is American in pretty much every way.

Nobody in Japan seemed to have an issue with him playing on Japan's World Baseball Classic team.

So, seems like a double standard.

There are only four races, Japanese is not a separate race. They are Asian.

Uhh, We know this.