Japan reaches its lowest-ever ranking on Education First’s 2024 English Proficiency Index

What do you expect when salaries are lower now than 25 years ago. You get what you pay for.

Eigo is taught by Japanese teachers, using textbooks written by Japanese authors, for the purpose of passing Japanese high school and college entrance exams. International communication is not a priority in the current education system.

What do you expect when salaries are lower now than 25 years ago. You get what you pay for. Dispatch companies focus on finding people willing to do nothing but be the token foreigner. In fact that is all they expect. Japanese English teachers often still expect to teach “this is a pen” as they did 30 years ago. Basic 2 and 3 letter words for Japanese like Yes and no or Thsnk you are as far from in their knowledge base as the geometry and advanced physics are for most other people. On the flip side Japan wants to attract talent for the work force and yet demand N2 or N1 for jobs that are not translators but other fields. Sadly having real talent choose other places that are much more welcoming. Communication is more than some basic phrases and is in part overall health of an international economy.

Zees izu a pen. Ai amu a boi. Ueah ah yu goingu, misuta sumisu?

If you talk like this, you'll be widely understood from Hokkaido to Okinawa. Trust me.

おめでとう, English is not my native language and Im pretty bad at it too. My Japanese which is the same level as my English. The only reason why I can speak English is I spent five years in the US. The only reason why I can speak Japanese is because I have lived in Japan for 18 years, I enjoy it and my wife doesn't speak German or English. I'm not afraid to make mistakes and fail.

Anecdotal, but part of my job involves checking the English of native Japanese speakers, and while the older employees usually have their basics down very well, some of the new hires make some really, really basic errors. Things like messing up singular / plural agreement, correct verb conjugation, stuff like that. On top of that, every time I correct a mistake, there's at least a 50-50 chance they will repeat it next time, meaning that they're not paying attention...or they think I'm wrong (lol).

I can't judge too harshly, as even the worst of them can write pretty well overall (and the best of them are excellent, way better than I can write in Japanese), but it's part of the job description, and if I didn't do my job properly, some of them would be sending out complete gibberish at times.

English = a mind numbing joke here

"Let me impress my pals by shouting any nonsense in english in front of the foreigner"

Not even in the smallest villages of Vietnam people have this kind of mentality.

The main reason for these findings are in the numbers they haven't shown in this report.

Companies and schools force many to take the tests this report is based on. That means there are a huge number of Japanese being counted compared to many of the other countries. Often in other countries it is only those who "love" English and want to take the tests getting recorded. In reality Japan would be in the 40-60 range. So still pretty bad.

When I first came to Japan in 2000, I taught English at an all girls high school in Hiroshima. My first day I met the principal of the school. He told me that he felt English was a fad and was not necessary because most of the students would never leave Japan after high school. I quit the following year because the support for the “English program” was terrible. Now, it seems that 24 years later, the feelings have not changed.

The proof is always in the pudding, but watch these latest dismal rankings be totally ignored. Just tell them they are doing a wonderful job, that's all they wanna hear anyway.

Zees izu a pen. Ai amu a boi. Ueah ah yu goingu, misuta sumisu?

If you talk like this, you'll be widely understood from Hokkaido to Okinawa. Trust me.

Bonus points if you can do it while sounding like Little Jacob from Grand Theft Auto 4.

Many of the high scoring countries are former British or U.S. colonies where English is used as the de facto official language. The Dutch language, linguistically belonging to the West Germanic group, is one of the closest languages to English. So the Netherlands’ high proficiency is not surprising. It’s no use trying to compare what cannot be compared.

Sarcastically, I often quip that, thanks to the total failure of the ministry of education, gaijin like me and a lot of others posting here can make a reasonable living.

It's not just English. they are incapable of teaching anyone to actually DO anything. Driving schools are a good example. I had to sit through 40 hours of lectures before any kind of hands on with a car. The "lecturers" would tell us what page of the manual we were going to be "studying" that day and line, by line, read it to us. Occasionally, the "lecturer" would pick a particularly important sentence and write it on the board. Just as it was written in the text book and just as he had spoken it.

I'm not joking or exaggerating. English "education" is conducted along similar lines. No wonder Japanese people can't speak English.

My advice is to fire the current administration and curriculum developers and hire people who can actually get results and get them to write a new curriculum and a training programme for teachers.

Communication is when B finally somehow understands what A wants to say. So it's not our cup of tea, if the Japanese don't see a necessity for being ultra perfect English language communicators. And btw. I guess the communication difficulties are very similar or maybe even bigger when different native speakers, for example a Scotsman and a farmer from Kentucky ever would meet and try to talk in their English.

It's not just English. they are incapable of teaching anyone to actually DO anything. Driving schools are a good example. I had to sit through 40 hours of lectures before any kind of hands on with a car. The "lecturers" would tell us what page of the manual we were going to be "studying" that day and line, by line, read it to us. Occasionally, the "lecturer" would pick a particularly important sentence and write it on the board. Just as it was written in the text book and just as he had spoken it.

While I have no idea if it's true or not, I once saw an article which suggested that students at some med school in Japan were completely amazed the first time they put a stethoscope to someone's chest, as they knew the actual theory of how it all worked inside-out and backwards, but they'd never actually done it for real. "Hey, it's beating!"

One reason why I prefer doctors and so on who have studied / worked abroad.

Japan’s English ability hasn’t gotten any worse, other countries have just gotten better. The article is purposefully misleading.

Was working as a "team teacher" today in junior high school.

Was permitted to say two words.

"Good morning".

Then relegated to marking papers.

There you have it in a nutshell.

The arrogance is outstanding.

That takes me back. I used to work at one school with a JTE who clearly felt that team teaching with an ALT was beneath her dignity. Other than the formulaic greeting and the occasional request to read something from the textbook, I was definitely doing a lot of standing around pretending to be interested in what was going on.

The list of countries by english speaking population is amore accurate representation, also in singapore majority speak singlish, now how does that qualify as proficient in english.

Education First?

Aren't they a bit dodgy?

As almost all noted, the problems with language learning here is the stilted exam based curriculum and the lack of support and training for existing teachers.

I teach part-time at a private school and have a free reign over what and how I teach. Been that way for years. Teach mainly higher level kids and they are in the most really responsive to interesting challenging subject matter.

It'd be hell trying to make English a joy by focusing on their advanced grammar texts. All of the Japanese teachers of English I have contact with at the school are very able in English, have good ideas and enthusiasm, but in the long run they have to teach to the final center exams. No escape for them.

And also I've been teaching private adult students here for decades - mainly people in their 50s, 60s, & 70s - and mainly women.

You'd be surprised at how many people have moderate English skills and above and can converse well. Many people you'd never suspect. I've taught 100s. One elderly long time student told me once how she was appalled waiting at the Shinkansen station in Kobe listening to 2 young foreigners mouthing off about everything around them, oblivious to the fact that they were being understood.

She told me, she said to them in perfect English "Your mothers would wash your mouths out with soap if they heard you".

Love to have been there.

But unfortunately probably too many who possess basic+ skills are too shy to use them.

Mike_OxlongToday  04:54 pm JST

Eigo is taught by Japanese teachers, using textbooks written by Japanese authors, for the purpose of passing Japanese high school and college entrance exams. International communication is not a priority in the current education system.

This. Like learning Latin in high school.

My wife's cousin graduated Tokyo University and is quite smart. But his English is, as he himself calls it, 受験英語. No problem reading and writing with a little time. But conversation? Forget it.

Most people I know and have met can and will speak English if you just listen to them and allow them to express themselves without you acting a professor calling it out their mistakes.

The problem with most people is they make a big deal and an issue about English speaking so most Japanese just PULL BACK and decide NOT to participate in a conversation because they do not wish to be embarrassed or called out.

I have yet to meet anyone regardless of nationality who's English is not considered their mother tongue and spoke fluent English and no one really cares as long as you get your point across.

The Japanese who interact with foreigners for their work speak excellent English that is impressive.

The level of English the Japanese speak is way higher than the Japanese Americans speak.

This year’s global ranking puts Japan at 92 (average score: 454 points), which is at the very bottom of the Low proficiency band. This placement is worse than its ranking last year at 87 

Hi, how are you?

Hallow. My name is….iya muri desu. Eigo muzukashii!

Where you getting these test takers? If you get these types the score of ociyrse is going to be near the bottom

Find rest takers in Toranomon. The English here is fine.

Quelle surprise!

Here is an ideea.

Throw or burn ALL existing japanese English text books, they are atrocious;

Then, for the love of God, please forbid any teaching and pronunciation in Katakana (worst Japanese invention ever).

The make a new curriculum from scratch, zero, where you actually focus on communication and interaction, not on mindless memorization and perfecting the grammar without understanding any of the vocabulary.

The "lecturers" would tell us what page of the manual we were going to be "studying" that day and line, by line, read it to us. Occasionally, the "lecturer" would pick a particularly important sentence and write it on the board. Just as it was written in the text book and just as he had spoken it.

This would torture. If English classes in Japan are like this, no wonder some end up hating English.

Not surprising. Almost every sign I've seen here in department stores, coffee shops, etc has at least one critical mistake. Finding one that makes sense is the exception not the norm.

I don’t understand why Singapore or Neatherland ranked higher than the Philippines. Strange…

English evolve daily

No surprise Koreans rank better. From my experience they're not afraid to have a go and make mistakes. Then learn from them.

Japanese are too focused on making perfection the enemy of the good. That attitude extends beyond learning as others above have already pointed out.

藤原

おめでとう, English is not my native language and Im pretty bad at it too. My Japanese which is the same level as my English.

I'm not afraid to make mistakes and fail

Bravo, well said. Not being afraid to fail is fundamental, you lean nothing from your successes only from your failures.

Meiyouwenti

The Dutch language, linguistically belonging to the West Germanic group, is one of the closest languages to English. So the Netherlands’ high proficiency is not surprising. It’s no use trying to compare what cannot be compared

Have you ever tried speaking Dutch, from personal experience I can assure you that regardless of the roots of the language it is in no way similar to English. There may be some words that have a degree of similarity but not enough to make any real difference, the Dutch proficiency is down to good teaching and practice, and yes they are damned good.

By the way English and German come from somewhat different roots, Anglo-Saxon which is the main root of modern English was derived from Low German, modern German derives from High German. The only language in the world that has a similarity to English is Friesian, and that isn’t very close.

The only countries in East or Southeast Asia that scored lower than Japan were Myanmar at 93, Thailand at 106, and Cambodia at 111 (all Very low proficiency).

I’m very surprised to hear about Thailand’s ranking. I’ve been there a few times and also found people communicated so well in English. Maybe they just don’t know some of more precise grammatical rules and advanced vocabulary.

> Jayszee Today  09:22 pm JST

I don’t understand why Singapore or Neatherland ranked higher than the Philippines. Strange…

I’ve never met a Dutch person who wasn’t fluent in English. In fact, most of the Dutch I’ve met could pass for native English speakers.

the story and comments not much different than 20 years ago, or 20 years from now.

DanteKHToday  08:46 pm JST

Here is an ideea.

Throw or burn ALL existing japanese English text books, they are atrocious;

Then, for the love of God, please forbid any teaching and pronunciation in Katakana (worst Japanese invention ever).

I know the problem with Katakana existing as part of the Japanese language. But for the Japanese the alternative would not have been any better.

(1) It's way too late to "get rid of it" and

(2) if Japan went back to the Ateji 当て字　they used earlier, it would be a mess. Just like Chinese words for Western things, Kanji used for their sound and not their meaning.

(3) The pronunciation of Katakana words is an approximation of what Western Words sound like expressed within the limitations of the Japanese language. It should not be considered "English". But it also adds a degree of familiarity when the Katakana word is "close" to the English word.

The Japanese are better at English than English Canadians are at French. The issue with English speaking Canadians and Japanese is neither have much motivation to learn a language foisted on them.

*neither has

Shirokuma4812Today  05:40 pm JST

When I first came to Japan in 2000, I taught English at an all girls high school in Hiroshima. My first day I met the principal of the school. He told me that he felt English was a fad and was not necessary because most of the students would never leave Japan after high school.

I wonder if that principal understands that at the tail end of the Tokugawa shogunate during the transition to the Meiji era, Japanese who learned English to varying degrees and travelled outside of Japan are the ones who are revered today as the founders of Modern Japan. The Iwakura Mission to the U.S. and Europe, Fukuzawa Yukichi, Nakahama (John) Manjiro....

Small people have small minds.

I taught in a preschool international school the owner was very motivated to bring teachers who were from various countries to teach English and introduce the children to variety of cultural activities. The children from the age of 3 started to learn their ABC'S and phonics, a real big deal for learning pronunciation and reading in English and which was a real huge help when I introduced spelling tests for the 4-year-olds and up. This surprised the owner; she did not believe the children could learn to spell from this age and the children loved getting the spelling tests and requested for them. During the annual teacher presentation, where the 5-year-old children show their parents, would show their proficiency and I would give a spelling test and by this time they were doing sentences. Afterwards the parents came up to me, stating they never saw anything like this before. For some of the children they were going onto international schools and based on their ability to read and write in English they were accepted into their chosen schools.

Now let's get back to this story, I was an assistant ESL teacher in a high school in Tokyo with no free reign you are just a puppet in the classroom, the students sit like robots and are scared to practice orally English in the classroom. They need to get the Japanese teachers out of the English classes and get native teachers in the classroom and allow the professional teacher to do what they do best, teach and not be a puppet, and if this happens Japan may see a huge improvement in students English levels both orally and in test scores.

International business uses English. If you are going to be a rural farmer, then it would matter if you want to sell your stuff outside China to foreign places without a middle-man translating.

Long ago, people learned that the best way to learn any language is to go live for a year+ where it is spoken daily. That is still true.

Sending your teen to an English speaking country for 1-2 semesters is great, just like someone from English speaking countries sending their teen to Japan is great. Costs are $10-$20K. Going for a few weeks in the summer is $3000-$6000, so not as good a deal and the language skills learned will not stay with the student as long.

Get your kids into an exchange program. Don't send them to a big city if you already live in Tokyo. Really shake up their view on life.

“It’s not that Japan’s English ability is declining, but rather that Japan is not keeping pace with the progress made in other countries.”

Or rather, it's not so much that it's declining, it's that it was never good to begin with.

Japan literally uses teachers who wrote, "Studied English" in their educational background -- whether it was required JH at the time or in HS or even college/Uni -- to teach English in schools rather than bothering to hire people are are proficient and teach it well. They also have the lowest educational funding in the G8, preferring to give all that money to defense spending. And when they are utterly embarrassed about it, like this, rather than work to remedy it they get defensive and say they don't need English, when that is increasingly not the case.

I don't have a political right but as a taxpayer I deserve an answer to just one question: Why is my tax money being used to fund JET or ALT or whatever they call it ? This program produces zero even negative result and the only thing it adds to Japan is the number of foreign sexpats.

One of the problems facing Japanese students of English is, as many have pointed out, Katakana. It would be possible to make it work, but often katakana bears very little resemblance to the English it's supposed to represent.

Every English word ending in "-er" has the "nobasu" sign. Yet I cannot think of any English word ending in "-er" that has a long vowel. "Mothaaa!, fathaaah, shishitaaah, etc," and if you went into a pub in England and ordered a "lagaah," they would think you were trying to put on airs. The first vowel of "lager" is long, not the second!

The obvious solution is more rote translation tasks in high school.

Well that's embarrassing but unsurprising given the way English is taught in Japan.

purple_depressed_bacon:

Well that's embarrassing but unsurprising given the way English is taught in Japan.

The main reason is not the Japanese approach to English education. The most important reason is that English is simply not needed in the daily lives of most people here. If you don’t need it, why study it? Sure, some people do master English in Japan, but that’s only because it’s required for their work or hobbies.

There’s no shame in not achieving proficiency; it's not needed!. Therefore, I suggest making English courses optional rather than a requirement. Teach only those who want to learn it, and stop wasting time and money on those who don’t.

@socrateos

English is the language of opportunity. Every child should be given an equal opportunity for success.

proxy

English is the language of opportunity. Every child should be given an equal opportunity for success.

Opportunity, yes. Coercion, no!

@socrateos

If a parent dreams of their child entering a top 10 university, the language is English.

If a parent dreams of their child being able to earn a salary in the top 25 countries, English is an asset.

If a parent dreams that their child work in an office of one of the top 50 companies in the world, most, even Toyota, require English.

If a parent dreams that their child one day, engages with the world, the language is English.

If a parent thinks that their child might, even for a week, escape the bounds of Japan and travel overseas, English is an asset.

Nobody can predict what their child will do and where they will go. When raising children it is best to aim high instead of aiming low.

Japanese people do not really need English language skills for migrant labour, and can live entire lives in a first world environment without ever feeling the need to speak English. So there is an element of not needing to learn English in Japan to live happily in the 'bubble'.

I think they should run the test on a random group of native English speakers in the UK, US, Canada and Australia, and see what they score.

"Yet I cannot think of any English word ending in "-er" that has a long vowel."

A few examples: cider, rider, racer, riser, miser, laser

Additionally, you need a fluent bilingual instructor to learn English properly, and there is a lack of them in Japan. For native English speakers, fluent 'non-Roman alphabet' Japanese is a tough call just to earn a living teaching there. It's easier for the Dutch, French or Australians.

They need to abolish katakana if they ever want to become more English proficient. They think that katakana is English but it’s not.

This discussion has been brought up in the media every ten years or so since I first arrived here in the late 1960s'. For an insight into how the Japanese themselves treat the matter, do a youtube search for "Shimura Ken English"

Sadly, Shimura San contracted 'corona' and passed away a few years ago.

Japanese people do not really need English language skills for migrant labour, and can live entire lives in a first world environment without ever feeling the need to speak English. So there is an element of not needing to learn English in Japan to live happily in the 'bubble'.

We are in a world where communication is ever more important and English is the key language.

You absolutely don't "need" English in Japan, and it will be quite normal. Japan is happy in its linguistic isolation as a declining economic power.

Canucksfan:

They need to abolish katakana if they ever want to become more English proficient. They think that katakana is English but it’s not.

That argument is absurd. The word "karate," for example, sounds funny to Japanese ears. Does that mean English speakers should use the original Japanese katakana "カラテ" or the kanji "空手" in English to pronounce it correctly?

It is widely understood that borrowed words are merely approximations. Just accept it and move on.

The fictional dialogues and stories in Japanese English textbooks usually revolve around the Japanese characters speaking English in order to accommodate foreigners in Japan. This reinforces the view that English is not useful or relevant for the success of Japanese students themselves.

They need to get the Japanese teachers out of the English classes and get native teachers in the classroom and allow the professional teacher to do what they do best, teach and not be a puppet, 

I'd like to know the level of Japanese of foreigners who teach English in Japan. In 30 years, I've yet to meet a foreign English teacher who could read and write above a grade 3 elementary school level.

I'd like to see a foreign ALT teach the subjunctive mood in English and see the twisted faces of the students in response.

Try teaching "Were it not for your help, I wouldn't have been able to pass the exam." in English.

Good Luck

Education First

We combine language training with cultural exchange, academic achievement and educational travel

I wonder where their most lucrative market is...

It would be a good idea to emphasise the need for them to Japanese people.

Who exactly took these tests?

One wonders why the situation is not addressed by Monbusho or higher up.

I had free rein as a university English teacher. I taught Literature and writing in English and had great time. You explain that.

In case anyone is interested, Education First, the company that published this study offers study abroad programs for Japanese students to improve their English.

The problem forcing perfection on language learners. Make English meaningful first. To hell mistakes. They are easily fixed.

The Japanese speak better English than foreigners speaking Japanese.

What do you expect when salaries are lower now than 25 years ago. You get what you pay for.

Despite the low salary of their teachers, Japanese high school students annually rank in the top 5 in PISA's international testing for math, science and literacy.

socrateosToday  06:58 am JST

Canucksfan:

They need to abolish katakana if they ever want to become more English proficient. They think that katakana is English but it’s not.

That argument is absurd. The word "karate," for example, sounds funny to Japanese ears. Does that mean English speakers should use the original Japanese katakana "カラテ" or the kanji "空手" in English to pronounce it correctly?

It is widely understood that borrowed words are merely approximations. Just accept it and move on.

With all due respect socrateos, it isn't absurd, Canucksfan is bang on the money.

I've been on the katakana journey as a Japanese learner and English teacher at all levels including University. At first I thought katakana was great and wondered why the oldtimers complained so bitterly about it - after about 6 years or so I finally realised how detrimental it is to learning English.

Your point about karate is completely inaccurate (all due respect) - if you are speaking in Japanese, then yes you should pronounce it in the katakana way ka-ra-te - as you are speaking Japanese. If you are talking in English then the "Western" pronunciation of kar-rarty is fine. Just like you would say ringo or apple in the two different languages.

Japanese students often blindly use katakana thinking they are speakign English - but without any experience most people who can understand English would struggle to understand what they are talking about - I've seen it firsthand when my family come to visit. Katakana words (which often mean the complete opposite (or are very misleading) of the English word they "borrowed" from i.e. high tension or frequently students just say every English word as if it is a katakana word - because they think katakana pronunciation is "English" pronuncitioan because katakana is what is used for foreign words.

Katakana is predominantly detrimental for Japanese English learners - I witness this nearly every week in professional education situations.

Mostly of the students even the parents don't consider English is necessary in their daily lives because they never think of going outside the country after graduation unless they plan to work abroad, and that is one factor that they very poor in English and to conclude they lack interest in learning English language.

@Gaijinjland The article is not misleading. See following paragraph:

In response to Japan’s relatively low placement, a representative from EF’s Japanese subsidiary offered the following remarks: “It’s not that Japan’s English ability is declining, but rather that Japan is not keeping pace with the progress made in other countries.”

soudan:

If you are talking in English then the "Western" pronunciation of kar-rarty is fine.

That's my point. Let Japanese people pronounce katakana ingrish words in Japanese way.

the students sit like robots and are scared to practice orally English in the classroom

The students are scared to practice oral English. The students are scared to practice English orally.

I was an assistant ESL teacher in a high school in Tokyo 

Therein lies the problem.

There are not enough qualified English teachers from abroad in Japan. Most ELS teachers don't have a teaching degree. Very few have a teaching degree from a Japanese university, which would make them qualified to teach in a Japanese high school as a full-time teacher rather than as an ALT or "puppet".

English education in Japan from elementary to university is stuck on tests. Large industries from cram schools to test prep textbook publishers to the actual testing companies rely on the status quo to stay in business.

Japan should just give up trying to improve their English education.

Besides, Japanese English is cute, and has kind of a childish, naive quality to it. It's endearing.

Japan is happy in its linguistic isolation as a declining economic power.

The English level of the average Japanese was worse when it became an econmic power.

One wonders why the situation is not addressed by Monbusho or higher up.

One wonders why the situation has not been addressed by...

Amazing, I would say that the number of jpn nationals who can communicate in English has risen exponentially since I first visited regularly ~26yrs ago. Quoting school level grades is gegrading. English as a terribly confusing language to learn, grammmar insistence a total nonsense. My favourite. Brtit. 'Will you be attending the meeting at 3pm Friday afternoon'. ... Asian 'friday meeting 3'oclock, go not go..' response go (or not go). English got too many words. yep, mayb teach pay shud be base on used words only. Used, I drive used car, I use fork eating, lodes more. Gess were I is born?? I speek french almos fluent, get bye in cantonese and japan talk. Wat is my test scor teaches?

I have always been impressed by the high English proficiency of people I've met in Myanmar. True, I have been mostly in urban areas, but Burmese people have been pretty good at mastering English.

It is surprising that Myanmar is one slot below Japan - both countries being in the very low proficiency category (Japan 92, Myanmar 93). Then I remembered: Myanmar is in the middle of a civil war. The education system has pretty much collapsed because of the fighting, and most people are focused on just staying alive.

Japanese teachers and students don't have that excuse.

The education system has pretty much collapsed because of the fighting, and most people are focused on just staying alive.

How did over 400 of them (the required minimum for the test) manage to take a superfluous test for a company called Education First? Did they take it between rounds of fighting? Did schools that were closed open up so students could take a superfluous English proficiency test?

The problem is.....NOT EVERYONE IS INTERESTED IN ENGLISH. So, the teachers complaining about the system seem to think the kids are interested in it. Some are, most are not. The kids may say they are interested, but some kids have dyslexia, ADHD, or other things. Some prefer the arts; some prefer math. And if the Japanese want to say something with a Japanese TWANG. Let them. The Indians speak English with an Indian accent, the Irish with an Irish accent, the Chinese with a Chinese accent, and the Africans with an African accent. Then there are the Scottish, Welsh Aussies and French Canadians. So, what is the CORRECT pronunciation of LOVE and RUB? It's clear from the sentence. I love you. what that means and I rub your shoulders. Or Japan has an Election, and I have an E.....ection. Correcting every single unimportant mistake is what some teachers live for. It keeps them in a job.

The sentence, topic, and conversation should give the meaning. But I understand. It justifies an ALT's job.

I wonder what the average score of an English speaker in a foreign language is? It's probably even worse! Good on the japanese kids.

One big issue is that foreign language here is taught like it's a math subject - everyone is embarrassed to make mistakes

As the saying goes: show me a foreign language student who doesn't make mistakes, and I'll show you a student who never learned the language

The best way to learn a language is to keep using it, and the only way one can't make a mistake is when one stops using it. The more mistakes you make, that means the more you're using it - so don't be embarrassed to make mistakes

I guess the communication difficulties are very similar or maybe even bigger when different native speakers, for example a Scotsman and a farmer from Kentucky ever would meet and try to talk in their English.

“Britain and America are two cousins separated by a common language”

There are many ways to make a prison then to have four concrete walls.

It’s not that Japanese children are not interested in foreign languages, it is that the style of and content of the teaching is still back in the Stone Age.

However, the above is not really the issue for me.

Imagine a young Japanese population, fluent in English and able to take on any challenge in that language-they wouldn’t be in Japan, they’d be somewhere else!

That ranking is only going to get lower.

ya? wha'ts the worlds japanese proficiency index?

My Japanese would cause smiles and giggles when I attempted it while working in Japan. Seems my teacher spoke with a lisp and I learned that as well. ;)

Requiring English doesn't make sense. Requiring 1 foreign language DOES make sense, but it doesn't need to be 5 yrs of study, just 2-3 yrs to get the idea of different languages really helps.

If you will be doing business with mainland China, best to learn Mandarin, not English. If you will be doing business with South America, learn Spanish. If you will be doing business with lots of foreign countries, learn English.

The choice of language needs to be that of the student AND parents. Does everyone need to learn Calculus? Nope.

I remembered back in 2005 when I came to Japan. I watched the famous NOVA chicken commercial "This is an eeto, pen." the chicks responded "This is an eeto, pen." Later, "Eeto, irannai". "Eeto, iranai", and then the chicken teacher went crazy. From my current teaching position (junior/senior high school), I feel as though I don't have to spoon feed my students. However, there are those few (both in junior and senior high) who just as much as you try to help make things very very easy, they still won't get it. Worse, even their parents don't know what to do. Go figure.

That's my point. Let Japanese people pronounce katakana ingrish words in Japanese way.

Because that's not English.

What a ridiculous comparison. French is not the international business/tech/education/tourism language

Ridicule it all you like. The fact remains that in Ontario, Canada, French is complusory from elementary school. Despite that, there are very few English speaking Canadians who can speak French. I grew up in Toronto, Canada's largest city. I can count on one finger the number of Canadians I know who can speak French. Also, those Japanese who are involved in "international buisiness", "tech", "education" and "tourism" can speak English well enough to be involved in "international business", "tech", "education" and "tournism".

Because that's not English.

That's correct, katakana is not English. It's Japanese.

Canada:

Percentage of English speakers who also speak the other official language French: 10-15%.

Source?

7.4%

Compared with around 20-30% of Japanese who can speak English.

Estimates vary, but most surveys show that less than 20-30% of the Japanese population speaks English fluently. The 2023 English Proficiency Index ranks Japan 87th out of 113 countries, and 15th in Asia.

https://www.thehistoryofenglish.com/how-many-people-in-japan-speak-english#:~:text=Estimates%20vary%2C%20but%20most%20surveys,countries%2C%20and%2015th%20in%20Asia.

So, yeah...English speaking Canadians are worse at learning French than most Japanese are at learning English.

Someone else said but this comparison is ridiculous and ill intended to make English Canadians look bad

I'm a Canadian who has experienced growing up in a Toronto public school where we had French lessons as a regular part of the cirriculum from elementary school, similar to how Japan has had English education from elementary school (in some cases, but not until junior high school in others). I know one person who can speak French, one. It's not me. The point is not to make Canadians look bad but to prove the point that where there is no motivation, there is little success in acquiring a 2nd language. I heard the same thing growing up in Toronto as I hear in Japan..."What do I need to learn French for?". I teach at a high school of 1500 kids. Those who have an interest in English do very well. Those who don't, struggle. C'est tout!

Compared with around 20-30% of Japanese who can speak English.

How to say "I don't know anything about Japan" without saying "I don't know anything about Japan."

Just scrolling a bit further down your own source it says:

Less than 2% of English speakers in Japan are thought to speak English with a high degree of fluency

This is way closer to the truth than that ridiculous "20-30% of the Japanese population speaks English fluently" nonsense.

Quote "The BOE only care about the paper test" This was said to me by a Japanese teacher of English. There lies the problem. The system isn't designed to produce proficient English speakers.

@rainyday

To be fair, he did not claim they were fluent, but in majority of cases you don't need that to communicate efficiently... or at all.

However, I'd also say 20% is an overstatement.

To be fair, he did not claim they were fluent, but in majority of cases you don't need that to communicate efficiently... or at all.

Actually the source he quoted in his post does explicitly state that:

Estimates vary, but most surveys show that less than 20-30% of the Japanese population speaks English fluently.



Pablovalover,

cider, rider, racer, riser, miser, laser

So you pronounce these words as "cidaah, ridaah, raceaah, riseaah, miseaah, and laseaah"?

Don't know where you're from but in my end of the woods, nobody pronounces these words this way.

I know Japanese in gainful employment for no other reason than they have fluent English, only that…

The entire system needs to be overhauled from the top down! The current curriculum from elementary through high school is far too complicated and complex! Then when you ask these kids “how are you” it’s no longer “I’m fine thank you and you” as fast as they can say it … it’s now “I’m happy” which are English words but not proper English! It would be easy to blame the ALTS or the JETS but it’s the system that is the problem! I am a parent , now a grandparent, a Yochien English teacher for 12 years, huge school! My own children have attended every grade from kindergarten to college! All 3 were born in California, and I spoke English and that’s what they heard most as babies … my Japanese wife spoke to them in nihongo. So luckily, all 3 are native tongue in both languages! So our situation is different, but I’ve seen it all here now . The emphasis and stress on the high school entrance exam is the biggest obstacle! Any kid that studies can ace that portion of the exam . So they’re already half way there! Despite not knowing or understanding what they read ! And can’t really speak more than basic words but not sentences! There are exceptions, those who are fortunate enough to attend Ibaraki Christian , they leave there at near native tongue in English! I don’t live or work there and certainly not a Christian :) But if the government is looking for change , they should start there to see success!

*Less than 2% of English speakers in Japan are thought to speak English with a high degree of fluency*

If a "high degree of fluency" is the bar then less than 1% of English speaking Canadians can speak French. If we're going to make comparisons then lets do so with apples and apples. Also, what is "thought to speak English with a high degree of fluency" mean? Though by whom? I've taught in a high school of 1500 students for more than 30 years. I would say that % is closer to 5 than it is 2. Also, a high degree of fluency is a high bar for a language that isn't used in 99% of Japanese' daily lives.

Most English speakers in Japan have a B1 (intermediate) level.

This, too was from the article @ rainyday