Do you think that a man giving up his seat on a bus or train to a woman, holding a door open for her or holding her chair as she sits down is outmoded?

Absolutely. She better be in the advanced stages of pregnancy or else this is a form of mating ritual.

An American woman chewed me out for holding the door open for her who was right behind me. Really absurd behavior in my opinion. Anyway, I closed the door and a moment later she opened it and came through. I think a lot of American women, not all, have their wires all screwed up when it comes to behaving like men.

BTW, I would have also held the door open if she had been a man. I don't shut the door on whoever is just behind me. That's just the way I was raised.

It depends, of course. Is the woman young, able bodied and healthy-looking? Then let her stand. Is she elderly and frail? Give her a seat.

Is the door going to slam shut in her face? Don't let it. Are you going to be standing there like an idiot for 5 seconds until she gets there? She's got arms, she can open it herself.

All of that can apply to men as well.

holding her chair as she sits down is outmoded?

Yes to that one.

Simply being polite is never out of date. Same for gentlemanly behaviour; always good. I smile and say, "Thank you".

If she's got able legs, noooo waaaaay I'm giving up my seat for her. Screw her. Also I'm not carrying a heavy ish box of copies for her just because "she's a woman and shouldn't lift heavy things." In my current team, we're a crew of 15 and I'm the only male. All other 14 are women. None of them ever pull the "but I'm a woman" card.

Now, if she's pregnant or an elderly person is a different story. Pregnant or disabled, elderly or in need of a sit regardless of their sex, I will offer my seat.

Holding the door open for women, I do it for the person behind regardless of their sex, specially if they're carrying stuff. It's common sense.

damned if you do; damned if you don’t.

Due to my age, young women often give up their seats for me. I will give up my seat if a person is more in need of it than I. I keep the door open for both sexes.

I must say, manners maketh man also women, courtesy conduct polite social grace.

Would I accept a seat if a elderly gentlemen offered. I would politely decline yet graciously acknowledge the gesture.

My Father stands up when a person enter the room, stand aside to let women enter the bus or train, opens a door to gesture ladies first.

Always offers helps Mother, Grandma, Aunts with coats.

A age old habit that publicly shows that you respect others.

Well, holding the door open for anyone is my second nature. Holding chairs would be fine because it is probably for someone you already know and it depends on your relationship with them. Hell, you could even make a big ironic show of it. Giving up seats to women is also fine if it is someone you know, again with the same conditions. Giving up a seat to a woman stranger who is not old, pregnant or disabled might be the start of something wonderful. Some guys could carry it off just because they have that charisma or even cheek. Others would look goofy or sleazy. They might be more likely to say it would lead to problems.

I’m old school … courtesy and respect for others, especially girls and women, is and will always be in.

Patricia Yarrow

Simply being polite is never out of date. Same for gentlemanly behaviour; always good. I smile and say, "Thank you".

True. It’s the social glue that some are working hard to remove.

Screw her.

See Patricia Yarrow’s post, mine, and several others.

The tradition of men holding doors open for women can be traced back to the medieval concept of chivalry, which called for women to receive special treatment because of their gender.

Some reading on the matter:

I was asked to rate the acceptability of a man holding a door open for a woman.

Although it was deemed “generally acceptable,” men were advised to be careful with this gesture, lest the female recipient think it springs from a sense of her inferiority and incompetence.

https://intellectualtakeout.org/2018/03/why-men-are-being-told-to-be-careful-about-holding-a-door-open-for-a-woman/

Why holding a door open for a woman could get you sacked for sex harassment: One of the startling conclusions from a TV documentary which left Alison Kervin fearful for her son when he starts work 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6585335/amp/Why-holding-door-open-woman-sacked-sex-harassment.html

I’m old school … courtesy and respect for others, especially girls and women, is and will always be in.

the intention is unclear, so these days singling out females, that might be a bit creepy. Do on to others you wish done onto you. Regardless of gender

Due to my age, young women often give up their seats for me.

That's nice. What about young men? I hope they show you the same courtesy or you might be getting some セクハラ

Holding the door open for women, I do it for the person behind regardless of their sex, specially if they're carrying stuff. It's common sense.

Good comment

Anonymous

Ha. Nope. I'll stick to common sense.

Does Japan have a cultural history of chivalry giving women special treatment? No. Rank is what matters.

https://japantoday.com/category/features/opinions/is-chivalry-dead-in-tokyo

These days, many doors are automatic.

Once many years ago, while eating in a restaurant in Yokohama I was mildly shocked to see a sumo wrestler enter and close the door in the face of his date, who was walking behind him. Perhaps this practice has changed in recent years.

Having been born and raised in the US south, no, it will never be outdated. Manners are timeless. I'm bringing my son up the same way here: open doors, offer seats, carry bags, walk on the streetside of the sidewalk with a lady, hold doors for others, Sir, Ma'am, Mr. / Ms. + first name for close adults (Mr. David, Ms. Kate), no on hats inside and never, ever wear a hat to the table. He does these because he saw me do them. His sister has been brought up to do them as well (for older ladies and little kids).

A lot of these would be a case by case basis.

Giving up the seat on a train or bus, if the woman is elderly, injured, pregnant, with kid or of special needs, without hesitation I would give it up. I would say if a man were to fall into one of those categories, I would probably do the same.

If said person were fairly young and basically healthy, most likely no. I'm not that young, myself.

Holding the door........I would if she were right behind me. (Probably would for any human, really.)

But, I'm not waiting more than 5 seconds though. If you're gonna take longer than that, forget it. Again, the exception list applies.

Holding the chair, that's a date/couple thing, you wouldn't do that for a stranger anyways. So that one would be a must.

No, chivalry , respect or politeness is never outdated. Anyway it’s an automatic gesture in my case. Comes with my education.

it would be nice someone would say thank you from time to time.

I do it. I don't care if people consider it outmoded, not politically correct, or what have you. I'll do it men, too, though I don't say, "ladies first" as I might with women (usually only people I know), with the men.

I see nothing wrong with any of it, and if others do, too bad on them. If they let me know I'll just let them stand or close the door in their faces since that's what they would prefer.

It's just polite, although the seat one really varies. First come first seated. Get there on time next time maybe?

Most dudes could do with a stand these days anyway though. Chonkers everywhere.

I was raised with 2 sisters and a large family of aunts on both sides. There are just somethings you do, be it holding doors open, opening doors for car passengers, putting the seat down or walking on the side of the footpath that is closest to the road.

It's become subconscious habit at this point, I don't think I could unlearn it if I tried . I'll be making sure my son does these too.

It is not outmoded in Japan because it was never in mode.

I still do it no matter who it is.

Holding a door- yes, for everyone.

Giving up a seat- not automatically, but I will never sit in the designated seats even if they're free, and I'll give up my seat to needy people.

Women are not needy. The giving up the seat thing was something constructed by people who try too hard. Same with paying for restaurant bills.

It could be outmoded, but "outmoded" doesn't have to equate to "bad". Debating politics without using ad hominem arguments and trying to actually be persuasive is outmoded, going by this place, but that doesn't mean it's wrong.

If I'm on a full train (almost never take a bus) and an elderly person (male or female) comes on who clearly has trouble moving (stick, walker, etc.), I'll at least gesture at the seat where I'm sitting (if I can make eye contact). If they don't take up the offer, then that's fine.

I haven't had any Godzilla Feminists go off on me for daring to do either of these things yet, but then Japan's a bit more chill in that regard.

When the "we is wimmin, we is strong, we don't need no men for long" brigade get to the age where their mobility is not what it was, one wonders if their pride will still stop them accepting any such gestures...

I think forcing courtesy down the throat of someone who doesn't need or want it and expecting praise for it is outmoded. If, however, someone clearly needs help, then get off your butt and offer it. It's not rocket science.

I almost never sit on trains and when I do, I always give it up to women or the elderly, it's just common sense.

I find this poll particularly interesting in light of the exchange I had here with another commentator on another article ( https://japantoday.com/category/national/'denying-my-potential'-women-at-japan's-top-university-call-out-gender-imbalance ). There I maintained that “women want all the benefits of increased opportunities without decreasing their elevated status among the sexes” and cited a number of examples of societal expectations on men in relation to women which evidence this elevated status. But I was told that I “should get out more” since my “characterisation of male-female relations” was unrecognizable to the commentator. In a comment that was unfortunately deleted, I responded to this saying I do in fact go out and suggested that perhaps the unrecognizableness of my examples was due to the commentator’s own social circle which consists mainly of individuals who actively echew gender norms.

And now from the comments and figures I see here that the majority of commentators also presumably "do not get out much." To the question if the preferential treatment of women in society is outmoded, TaiwanIsNotChina says “Absolutely” for which they have received at the time of this writing 8 likes and 31 dislikes, a disapproval rating of 79%! Patricia Yarrow says that “gentlemanly behaviour” is “never out of date” and has received at the time of this writing 30 likes and 5 dislikes, an approval rating of 86%! R B Quinn says that “courtesy and respect for others, especially girls and women, is and will always be in” and has received at the time of this writing 16 likes and 2 dislikes, an approval rating of 89%! These percentages support my position that there is indeed overwhelming societal support for the maintenance of the preferential treatment of women, i.e., female privilege.

And so to answer the question, if the goal is "equity" as the promoters of DEI have set out, then yes, the preferential treatment of women is necessarily outmoded in such a society. But if the goal is "equality," the goal that was set out before the introduction of “equity,” then no, because although men and women are equal in such a society, they are not the same and will naturally have certain advantages/disadvantages relative to each other. But as society stands we are somewhere in the middle with women’s disadvantages always taking the spotlight and discussions of men’s disadvantages written off as the mere complaints of crybaby misogynists who are scared of losing their “male privilege.” So for me treating a woman like a lady, if she indeed acts like a lady, is not outmoded. I am for equality and would very much like to see a society full of ladies and gentlemen.

Being chivalrous and a gentleman is never out of fashion. Is just that the aggressive feminism and feminists that gradually are destroying this. Hopefully here is Japan, people are no thst stupid, nor woke enough for this nonsense.

Being nice and treating people nice would never be out of fashion.

If someone is coming behind me, I hold the door open for them, whether they are male, female, young or old, and many people do the same for me. I think that's the way it should be.

Women always complaining about wanting to be

equal, but I'm old school , so would always help out a woman.

Nah, being nice never goes out of date.

If it is a young women, she can be treated the same as any man.If she is old, disabled, heavily pregnant, then I may offer up my seat. I'll hold the door, if there is someone right behind me, so it doesn't hit them, and just for good manners. On a date, I'll offer her the seat, but I'm not pulling it out and pushing it back in for her.

But women often say, we want equality and then in the same breath complain men never give up their seat for them based just on their gender. But manners go a long way. I do find japanese people in the big city i live in don't tend to hold the door for th eperson behind them. BUT SOME DO!

But there is also a pretty factor here with me. If she's cute, looks nice,the man will want to impress her and offer up that seat, ( in some deluded way, he thinks she will start that conversation) but if she's "looking glass" challenged then men are less likely to offer up that seat. Male psychology at its most primitive.

GillislowTierToday  10:03 am JST

Nah, being nice never goes out of date.

On a date!. lol Totally!

yes, when compared with doing acts of kindness without discriminating, holding a door or giving up your seat for other people without restricting it to a gender, age group, etc.

I don’t need or expect anyone to give up their seats but I appreciate people, not only men, holding doors or elevators because I do the same for everyone. I also give up seat for the elderly, handicapped, women with children, etc. but why should men give up their seat for women just because? I personally prefer to stand right next to the door when it’s packed.

If a person is not capable of seating themselves without another person helping them would it be better just to push the wheel chair up to the table. I wait around automatic opening doors to help out those who are unable to use them. I can not remember anytime I have travel on a Tokyo train and got a seat. So I have never had the opportunity to offer my seat.

Some very interesting comments here. Just as many of you do, I follow what I was taught and do all the things we used to do: hold a door open, give up a seat, and so on) but it should be mentioned that the use of such social manners is in obvious decline. Not having been taught to be conscientious of others and how to do it (and one can't blame either the parents or the children and young adults completely) there is less use of these social norms. The world of computers and smart phones has a lot to do with it along with some such acts simply dying off gradually. I'm old, so I can say in my day these acts were almost naturally used. But some commenters here have said that they don't always do these things depending on certain cases. I do them all the time despite the changing times, but there is a change happening nevertheless.

Good habits giving people special importance is normal if you want a healthier society.

Why do you think Europe and the USA attracted so many ?

Religion has something to do, whether you like it or not.

Social manners towards other do matter. Children and ladies first, then old people because caring and being nice is what makes it a better place.

Not at all.

the problem lies with those who demand such treatment.

I think forcing courtesy down the throat of someone who doesn't need or want it and expecting praise for it is outmoded.

Who expects praise?

If someone is coming behind me, I hold the door open for them, whether they are male, female, young or old, and many people do the same for me. I think that's the way it should be.

how about reversing it. embarrassing moment I had been training to hard and was returning from the physio treatment , limping someawhat, young lady obviously at several months stood up, after some gin gai she was persuaded to retain her seat, whilst hanging onto the rail in front of her. maybe I reminded her of her grandfather? even tho, I have blue eyes, conclude there is not one size that fits all?

What has this question to do with gender? It depends who is this person, regardless if man or woman. Elderly or handicapped person, pregnant woman, a man with a small child or with luggage like a heavy suitcase ...

Why not to help them if they need help?

However I see no reason why I, a man 70+, should give up my seat in a bus or train for a female high school girl who is standing and playing with her i-Phone.