Underworld comments

Mr Kipling

Ukraine pursuing military targets while Russia pursues civilian targets.

Someone needs to learn to take both Ukrainian and Russian reports with a large pinch of salt. Especially Ukrainian reports of missile and drone interceptions. Both sides will show you the apartment building hit by their own anti air missile and claim it was an opposition drone. Neither will show you the results of an ammo dump destroyed.

Still doesn't change the fact that Ukraine pursues military targets while Russia pursues civilian targets.

Ukraine pursuing military targets while Russia pursues civilian targets.

Zaphod

Without US involvement by supplying arms and intelligence, Zelenski would not have been able to bomb Russia.

Not at all. Many of those attacks are from home manufactured drones

Limiting the definition of "involvement" to "boots on the ground" is a purely semantic fig leaf, which not only Lavrov and Putin, but everyone can see through.

Well no marines are losing lives. Big distinction.

Trump should have walked away from this mess right from the start, instead he sadly got involved with his over-confident "art of the deal" idea. Now, whatever happens, he will be blamed.

Well he did say that he would end it in one day. We all knew that he wouldn’t.

The best scenario now is a coup-d´etat in Kiev, leading to regime change and a negotiated settlement.

That would be the worst outcome. Zelenskyy is such a great leader.

okinawarides

No it isn't. Boots on the ground is involvement.

Incorrect, there is all kinds of involvement without " boots on the ground". Or was Trump bombing Iran "non-involvement? Since there were no boots on the ground.

Oh, so Trump bombed Russia?

If so, I agree, that would be involvement.

okinawarides

How so? 1 civilian is killed and you think that is proof that they are not targeting civilians?

Yes, that seems a pretty good indication they are going after military infrastructure targets.

Yeah, right.

HopeSpringsEternal

Sensible Ukranian civilians should be sure to live far away from any military targets,

They do. Unfortunately, Russia targets civilians.

HopeSpringsEternal

Everyone knows Ukraine's imbedded their military within Kiev, including weapons production.

Incorrect.

It's thus game on for Russian airstrikes, anyone living in Kiev or other Ukrainian cities should move as far away as possible from any such military targets, don't risk it!

They aren't military targets.

They are civilian targets.

okinawarides

You can't accelerate nothing. Trump has given up on peace efforts.

No, he didn't.

Really? So what's happening with the ceasefire that Ukraine agreed to months ago?

Lancet

 Apartment blocks aren't military targets.

They are if the roof has an air defence missile battery on it.

In Kyiv? Nowhere near the front?

Yeah, right.

bass4funk

Nope. 

Yes OR do you know more than the Pentagon?

Even the Pentagon admits that "internal military assessments showing the aid would not compromise American military readiness"

This is the third time that Hegseth has done this.

That's what happens when you appoint incompetent drunks to positions of importance.

Mr Kipling

NATO isn't involved. They supply training and arms. That's all.

Lol... That is exactly what being involved is.

No it isn't. Boots on the ground is involvement.

If you want to see how that looks like, 30,000 North Koreans are being sent to Ukraine, despite many of you denying North Korea's involvement.

That and intelligence, targeting and you think the Ukrainians are manning the Patriots, Hi-mars, Storm shadows etc all by themselves?

Yup.

Blacklabel

Ridiculous narrative “your team” regurgitates.

so if these judges are ruling entirely just on “the law” not partisan politics,…why do they keep getting overruled?

They don't.

While some lawmakers in Trump's party expressed concerns over the bill's price tag and its hit to healthcare programs, in the end just two of the House's 220 Republicans voted against it, joining all 212 Democrats in opposition.

This bill will be horrendous to many, include many rural Trump supporters.

It will be a gift to Democrats in the mid-terms, however.

okinawarides

Civilians are absolutely targeted. Russia is targeting civilians to try and get Ukraine to capitulate.

All civilian casualties are tragic, anywhere. Given that this was the largest attack of the war and there was 1 person killed however, that is a clear sign civilians are not targeted despite pro NATO propaganda machine saying so.

How so? 1 civilian is killed and you think that is proof that they are not targeting civilians? The proof is that they are going after apartment blocks. Apartment blocks aren't military targets.

Still as stated, all civilian casualties are tragic hence the necessity for Trump administration to persist and accelerate its peace efforts.

You can't accelerate nothing. Trump has given up on peace efforts.

bass4funk

No we aren't.

We are.

"This decision was made to put America's interests first following a DOD review of our nation's military support and assistance to other countries across the globe," said White House spokesperson Anna Kelly to the press. "The strength of the United States Armed Forces remains unquestioned -- just ask Iran."

Nope.

U.S. Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth unilaterally halted a weapons shipment to Ukraine on July 2 despite internal military assessments showing the aid would not compromise American military readiness, NBC News reported on July 4, citing three U.S. officials.

Mr Kipling

Trump the groveling Russian lapdog...

No he isn't.

Yup. He is.

But he is aware that this is a lost cause without direct NATO involvement.

NATO isn't involved. They supply training and arms. That's all.

That is not going to happen so why prolong the inevitable. Russia is advancing on all fronts at a faster pace every month.

No they aren't. Russia have been crawling for years and occupy less territory than at the start of the war.

Ukrainian defenses are struggling.

Their air defense against attacks on civilians is struggling because of rogue elements in the Pentagon cutting off supplies of missiles.

Things are getting worse for Ukraine with no opportunity to turn things around.

Plenty of opportunity, especially as the Russian economy is struggling.

They were done by fall 2023, all they need to decide is how many more Ukrainians have to die

Ukraine has no choice. Putin isn't likely to stop any time soon.

in this pointless proxy war.

Not a proxy war.

Just last week, talking about Patriot missiles, Trump said after meeting Ukrainian President Zelensky "We’re going to see if we can make some available”.

bass4funk

And that Hegseth guy stopping weapon delivery.

Yes, we are giving way too much ammunition to Ukraine and our own stockpiles are dwindling fast, we can’t afford that.

No we aren't.

South Sudan has long been dangerous even for locals. The U.S. State Department advises citizens not to travel there due to violent crime and armed conflict.

Does anyone else think that deporting people to South Sudan an unnecessary and cruel punishment?

Lancet

Russia successfully hit eight locations with nine missiles and 63 drones

And 1 person killed, tragic but it could have been far worse. Civilians are not getting targeted.

Civilians are absolutely targeted.

The Russians are exceptionally professional and use their massive network of Ukrainian supporters in Kiev to tell them when the warehouses and factories and are empty or workers and then the missiles fly.

Incorrect. Russia is targeting civilians to try and get Ukraine to capitulate.

The Pentagon knows this and are reluctant to send expensive and scarce Patriot missiles knowing they'll get blown up in a warehouse with one pinpoint precision strike by a ballistic missile.

Well the ammunition warehouses that have been blown up are on Russian territory.

It seems more likely a Putin fan in the Pentagon is stopping the shipments on his own agenda. I wonder if Trump has found out yet?

JJE

Moscow's position is obvious. They'd like to use diplomacy to sort this out (they attempted 8 years of it) and achieve the goals.

No, they didn't.

Putin has no intention of diplomacy. He would rather crater his economy for his pride project.

okinawarides

Trump's intentions can be deduced by his actions.

According to the liberals Trump flip flops all the time

Yes. Like with tariffs.

and his actions are unpredictable,

No his flip-flopping is predictable. He didn't get the nickname T.A.C.O. for nothing.

so no, they can not be deduced accurately.

They totally can. And with Putin, this is certainly so. He loves the guy and the worst is that he will get angry with him, but he won't lift a finger against Russia.

For this he has a clear track record, so much so that some people think he's a Russian agent.

He could be tightening sanctions tomorrow and nobody will know until he puts it out on X. All in caps.

The is 100% no chance that he would do this.

bass4funk

I guess you can't answer the question, so you are avoiding it.

I didn’t avoid it, I answered it.

You didn't mention rural hospital closures once.

okinawarides

Putin has no interest in peace, and Trump has no intention on leaning on Putin.

Unless you are part of Trump's inner circle you or anyone else on here have no idea what 47th intentions are, rest is just rhetoric.

Oh come on! What's one thing Trump has done to Russia or Putin to put pressure on him to pursue peace?

One thing?

Trump's intentions can be deduced by his actions.

bass4funk

How is hospitals closing anything to do with undocumented migrants? One in four rural hospitals are likely to close as a result of this bill. It affects everybody.

Easy, lead with background checks, you can track and use employee records, school records, medical records, immigration documents, and you can easily verify that, and if they don’t qualify, then they get nothing, if there is indeed a serious medical issue that is preventing them from working, then they should get benefits

Which has nothing to do with hospitals closing, which is what I am talking about.

I guess you can't answer the question, so you are avoiding it.

Nope. I quoted the article: "expected to pile an extra $3.4 trillion over a decade onto the country's fast-growing deficits"

Quoting that number without context is misleading. Yes, the bill is projected to add $3.4 trillion over 10 years—but and again, BUT that’s before accounting for the economic growth, job creation, and long-term savings it generates.

It is accounting for that.

okinawarides

Dang,,looks like Trump gets his way again and the anti Trump JT pundits are proven wrong , again.

What? Did some people say that it wouldn't pass? I didn't see any.

Considering the GOP have majorities in the house and senate, why wouldn't it?

bass4funk

A reverse Robin Hood: steal from the poor and give to the rich.

Able-bodied people and illegals should not get a dime.

Nothing to do with what I am talking about.

Ironically, rural Trump voters will feel much of the pain as their hospitals close and their Medicaid vanishes.

Yes, so if they can work, they should, they should never mooch off the government and illegals should ever get any benefits

How is hospitals closing anything to do with undocumented migrants? One in four rural hospitals are likely to close as a result of this bill. It affects everybody.

Indeed. The fiscal irresponsibility of the GOP is astounding.

Just absolute false and stupid nonsense. You always get the facts wrong.

Nope. I quoted the article: "expected to pile an extra $3.4 trillion over a decade onto the country's fast-growing deficits"

okinawarides

Good to see Trump keeps on working to deliver peace in Ukraine. It is obviously difficult but moves towards peace are necessary and must continue.

In reality, it's a complete waste of time.

Putin has no interest in peace, and Trump has no intention on leaning on Putin.

WoodyLee

NATO nations must find a way to guarantee Russia security and limit NATO expansion toward Russian Borders.

Why?

It's irrelevant. Ukraine and Finland aren't threats to Russian security.

The opposite isn't true, however.

Russian leaders are also angling to establish greater control over political decisions made in Kyiv and other eastern European capitals, NATO leaders have said.

I.e., Russian imperialism.